I mean, I have the Pantsir SM-SV with a current win rate of 76% and K/D of 6.75 so what is the argument you are making?
Exactly. Its literally unique spaa. You cant judge S1 or SM-SV based on 10km irst saclos spaa in case of adats or excel table in case of sky sabre.
oh
So what you are saying is that people that don’t own either one of the Pantsirs can’t call it too strong based on actual specs and their experience having to fight it?
All I can say is that I’ve seen some idiots fail to use it somehow because this thing is stupid good at both munition interception and destroying Helis and aircraft
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You could give people the ultimate weapon that requires no skill whatsoever and you would still see some of them fail to use it
That’s just how it is
Ive seen so many more people do well because it’s easy to use and is extremely good at its job. Just sad to see that NATO doesn’t really have anything that’s on this thing’s power when comparing the NATO SACLOS guided stuff.
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While it would still be extremely powerful, Gaijin could have just left out either the TKBs or the 95Ya6M and the thing wouldn’t even have been nearly as problematic as it is right now
NATO has systems that either specialize on just SHORAD (guns and short range SAMs) or on dealing with planes at longer ranges
A Skyranger for example could somewhat compare to the Pantsir, if the Pantsir didn’t have the 95YA6Ms
No, im saying that people like you shouldnt cant call anything too strong or too weak before they get above 1 kd at least. Don’t try to distort my words.
And SM-SV is broken as hell. Its 1700m/s missile should be removed. Regular S1 is already a 12.7 spaa, which for some “unknown” reasons sits at joke of a BR. New pantsir have smokes, mobility, radar and munitions advantage and must be balanced and moved even higher.
My proposal for balancing SM-SV is:
- remove 96ya6m missile completely from the game it has nothing to do with current balance
- move new pantsir to the 13.3 BR in GRB (with overall BR decompression) so it wont face helis without FnF munitions or subsonic attack jets/muliroles with TV munitions such as agm-65B
How is someones K/D linked to their ability to literally just look at specifications and be able to tell that there is an obvious imbalance?
You don’t even need to play the game to be able to see that the Pantsir (or something like the Kh-38MT) is much better than any other system based on raw specifications.
The problem is not in nato military doctrine or vehicles. The problem is implementation.
Gaijin is always trying to “balance” the game to make it fun and playable, but the “red line” is always drawn infront of “red” vehicles. Also alot of features found on “blue” vehicles are considered as OP, while “red” vehicles getting its stats artificially increased to the point it become an actual OP.
Examples:
- BMPT getting its belts separated with a hull ammo in order to prevent ammorack by simply being hit in the turret.
- BMPT got its vehicle class changed to atgm launcher in order to increase its missile capacity which is physically impossible irl
- Logic behind spalling: modules does not produce spall so T-series autoloaders act as a 100% spall liners, while “blue” tanks actuall spall barriers create spall
- we have missile such as R-73 or R-27ET but Pyton 4 is apparently too OP for the game. It was literally build to compete with R-73 irl
- Kh-38 missile which is made to strike facilities and bridges irl can be used not only for killing tanks, but it can even kill supersonic jets. Yeah and a whole MT version staff as well.
- Spike missile known to be extremely accurate is “balanced” to barely even hit a stationary target. I know its even closer to loytering munition irl and usually there is a man guiding it untill the very last part of its flight, but still.
- brimstones/jagm missing its targeting modes and systems
- you have to fight gaijin without any success for years in order to fix something missing on a “blue” vehicles. Meanwhile gaijin literally creating “red” vehicles based on their assumptions and expectations (yak-141) or even straight up giving it munitions which it cant even physically use (like all R-27 missiles on mig-29 9-12/9-13 except R-27R)
etc
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You literally said you have a great time with spikes. Spikes are nearly useless in this game and I explained you why you got this idea.
Speaking of sm-sv - you dont even get HOW actually op it is, because you probably just saw a regular players who cant even use its full potential.
Yeah true, I can’t even lie I agree with this more than what I think, that being NATO doesn’t have a counterpart that could equal the Pantsir SM-SV
I’ve already gone over this before and you are not me, there is no way for you to know how reliable Spikes have been for me (oh, right, I forgot that my K/D totally shows how many times I’ve disabled enemy tanks using the Spikes).
You (and others) are expecting it to just keep getting you free kills, instead of treating it as a low risk, low reward tool to just harass and cripple the enemy.
So I am correct in saying that it is too strong, me being able to literally just look at the specifications and looking at gameplay led me to that conclusion, but I still can’t call it too strong?
But instead of it being my K/D, now it is your assumption of me having it only ever seen being used badly, which might make me believe that it is weaker than it actually is?
Which isn’t even the case, because bad players performing well in it is a sure sign that it is severely overpowered in the hands of a competent player.
How would you even know what kind of players I have seen use the Pantsir?
Let me guess, next thing you are gonna tell me that I couldn’t have seen many players use the Pantsir because I haven’t played top tier enough.
Exactly, because you only can see a tip of an isberg.
Right now spikes are garbage and I will gladly explain you why.
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First of all, its pointless as a weapon of “disabling” vehicles, because spikes are almost always paired with bushmaster which is nearly useless against T-series tanks and struggle to finish disabled tank off. Whats the point of disabling vehicles in wt if you can just kill it with other light tanks? 2s38 can easly oneshot tanks with its 0.5s cd gun while being at lower BR. And im not even talking about conventional light tanks with 105/120/125 guns. Im not sure about freccia, because I dont have it and I cant judge its gun based on my experience.
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If we take spikes as a “disabling” munitions, there should be good quantity of them. Everything except freccia and cv90mk4 have only 4 of them which is a joke. And ofc those vehicles dont have bmpt treatment.
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Even as a “disabling” munitions spikes struggle to perform, because absolutely most of the time its just doing nothing damage wise. Im not even talking about killing tanks.
There are multiple ways to tweak its effectivness:
- increase amount of missiles. All spike carriers have alot of free internal space used to transport infantry and supplies which can be its own munitions.
- increase probability of kill/heavy damage in exchange for much longer initial lock time or increasing its ins drift so smokes would be more effective against it
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What the hell is that logic? It is obvious to (almost) everyone that the Pantsir is too strong, everyone can look at it and see how much better it is than the other SAMs, but according to you, only the people that have used it are allowed to call it too strong?
I’ve already made my points in this thread and had a lenghty discussion about them, I am not going to discuss that again, as it is off-topic
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/QpAAOFq3FhuQ
No, it is not just you.
The vids show skysabre being unable to intercept slow glide bombs. Any other ARH or SACLOS system cough cough wouldnt have similar issue.
That being said atleast the skysabre is from the ARH systems one of the better ones.
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Really interesting data, whats the dataset? Is it all games in those time periods?
Russia making up ~50% of all CAS kills is pretty insane, and paints them clearly as one of the biggest problems top tier ground battles faces…
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The overall data shows a pretty problematic picture
It isn’t even surprising to me that the USSR tree makes up around half of all CAS whenby far the most kills and deaths also are made up of USSR vehicles
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