And so it needs to go at lower br then.
The ZT3A2 has 1000mm pen, the HOT-2 has 900mm pen and the TOW-2A has 800mm pen
From my experience all of those have more than enough penetration power and I am genuinely curious how often people run into the problem of a TOW-2A not having enough pen
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Sure, but not SACLOS level BRs
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Why? If we already concluded it performs worst than a saclos missile?
They. Aren’t. Worse.
FnF is inherently better than SACLOS thanks to their lack of risk and the fact that you literally don’t have to do anything except launch them, which you can do on the move
Are you seriously going to suggest that FnF ATGM platforms should be at the same BR as the Desert Warrior, M3A3 and Wiesel 1A2?
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if this is what your realization is supposed to be then i dont know if i am to call you incompetent or incapable of understanding the most simple things known to man.
i am genuinely worried for your future if you cant understand the problem of having unreliable missiles with low amount of stockpile on vehicles with 0 armor.
See a smart person would understand the concept of “easy to die but has good weapons that arent artificially nerfed” but i think i would have better time talking to a wall at this point.
then why the f*ck are you piping up if you dont actually play top tier.
Your entire point is “well i feel like” when people that do use the thing say how it is. Youve literally done less than nothing.
The only Spike vehicle youve played is Vilkas, in which youve got 116 games. Thats it.
I genuinely dont know why you think you are somehow correct on spikes when youve barely used them.
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Considering the average damage it makes, yes. I would be more worried about a Khrizantema-S/Btr-82AT than a Namer if I were a mbt.
Go on, insults surely will help.
I guess people would prefer a game in which low risk equals high reward, would explain why CAS is as overpowered as it currently is.
Because Spikes aren’t top tier only weapons, unless 9.7-10.7 suddenly is top tier
How many matches would I have to play to be able to judge their performance?
Are observations of getting killed by them and friends (and content creators) using them not something that can be taken into account when judging a certain weapon?
Would I have to have used a higher BR Spike platform to be able to judge them, despite them being available at 10.7 and facing 9.7?
Are they all tandem? I don’t recall
I’m just comparing off raw stats, since majority of the playerbase would say Kornet and HJ-9 are the best off raw pen
Brother, this is the easiest man to talk with, you are creating the brick wall.
Agree to disagree, but not a whole crashout.
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You don’t care about other features of Spike platforms, do you?
The regular PUMA is at 10.3, without any kind of ATGMs, the survivability of the Bradley, Wiesel, Warrior, etc is considerably worse than that of the Spike platforms
Type 24/25, CV9030/9035s, VBC, VBCI and M1296 don’t have ATGMs
The Wiesel and the Khrizantema don’t even have guns
Again, I do agree that the Spike platforms could down in BR by one or two steps (depending on the vehicle), but you can’t put them at 9.7 or below just because the FnF ATGMs aren’t free kills
Would you give FnF CAS the same treatment because Spikes, PARS, JAGMs, etc would be worse than Hellfires, AKD-10s, ZT6s, etc according to you?
All of them are tandem
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They are except the HOT-2
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Ah, misremembered that one then, whoops
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I was refering exclusively on the Namers, which can be killed by late 105mm sabots and early 125mm sabots, and also very slow.
Air its a completely aside world, no point in compare. Helis have more ammo (infinite), have more view of the battlefield and so release 16 FnF munitions in a short time, more difficult to kill (yes a sabot hitting a tank its faster than a vt1 reaching a heli 5km away), etc.
In that case, I’m completely with you, except for the idea of them being 9.7.
From what I’ve heard the Namer really is in an extremely sad state. If it remains as bad as it currently is I could see it maybe going down to 10.0, but I believe 10.3 with a couple buffs would be a better fit.
The Tsrikhon obviously should be one or two steps higher, due to the APS.
But as I’ve tried to say, there are more factors to keep in mind than just the FnF vs SACLOS arguement, even if you disagree with me there
Well, at least we can agree there.
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What makes this overall more frustrating is how anti aircraft are generally just, strangely balanced.
Sky Sabre outclasses every radar anti aircraft (including BUK M3, where BUK M3 gets better range and overall top speed), IRIS-T outclass every IR anti aircraft platform being a stealthy system where the aircraft just explode, something that other anti aircraft cannot do.
On the other hand, you get Type 03 which is a bulky, 6km min-range at best, barely 15km range, only thing it makes up for is hardened radar seeker on the Type 4 missiles - every other aspect it’s quite garbage
Then you got something that outshines everything - Pantsir SM SV which falls a little bit in like the Sky sabre class, but add some guns and drop the fire and forget capability. Overall it’s just stupid how some anti aircraft are not allowed to perform near their real life figures like Type 03 (barely 15km range, really) but some others are allowed?
Sadly it’s almost always been like that with anti air
Gaijin doesn’t seem to care about adding important features when it comes to anti air most of the time
When they add new anti air vehicles (well, vehicles in general), they seem to get their info about specs and performance from some consultants and if the info they get from their consultants makes the vehicles weaker than they should be, it is up to the players to find proper sources that would provide info about how exactly the vehicle should really perform
Sometimes that info is easy to find, but other times it is nearly impossible to find, so the more obscure vehicles may end up being stuck with underperforming statistics
The top tier SAMs were rushed and undercooked implementations and it seems like fixing them and adding missing features isn’t a priority at all, which is why CAS still is much stronger than most anti air systems
The Pantsir SM-SV, while still being extremely powerful, wouldn’t even be such an upsetting addition, if the other SAMs were properly modelled (and CAS wasn’t so well equipped to just counter or even ignore anti air systems)
Older anti air systems are still waiting for important fixes, most SACLOS SAMs that would be ACLOS IRL will probably remain SACLOS forever in-game
Gaijin probably won’t add any aiming/guiding assistance for such systems to offset the fact that the missiles tend to waste most of their energy because of the guidance is implemented (I’m pretty sure they could use the missile aiming assist that top tier planes get for SAMs)
Non-radar SPAAs don’t get any kind of aiming assistance, even though even WW2 anti air guns had special sights and rangefinders to help gunners reliably hit planes. I’m not expecting radar-like lead assistance, but at least give us a way to roughly rangefind planes…
It’s a shame, really, but the majority of players seems to prefer CAS being so extremely powerful and don’t care about the SPAA/SAM imbalance
And Gaijin certainly doesn’t care about prioritizing gameplay and balance over historical accuracy and “realism”
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Hermes has like 15 kilograms grams of he filler with a 25kg warhead no? Unless they make it too attack it isnt going to be very useful, besides has that even ever even been seen outside the prototype?