The Pantsir SM-SV is Simply Too Strong, Russian Bias as Clear as Day

[KhorneFlakez1337]

Ok, don’t argue with me then

I’m having a great time with Spikes and my buddies have been having great success with them as well

[SadRIPer]

Exactly.

It’s so obvious

[SadRIPer]

Spikes/MMPs/JAGMs/PARS top down approach are badly modeled, yes.

But they’re also supposed to be tandem ATGMs, meaning they should easily pen through russian ERAs. However, 75% of the times, russian ERAs eat them.

I do not understand why.

[SadRIPer]

Exactly.

I rather have tandem launch-on-the-move (I didnt even talk about how russian IFVs can launch their ATGMs on the move while NATO ones can’t for some reason ?? Also, NATO IFVs must deploy their launchers too in some cases, and it takes very long time to do so. I should add that to the list), than useless spike/mmp missiles hiting a commander mg/era/track 90% of the time.

[gfdsa_killer]

NATO ground ATGMs are usually guided by cable (like the TOW), suposedly no vehicle can launch cable guided missiles on the move because they intertwine or smth like that, BMP-2’s konkurs also suffer from this.
In compare, most of Russian ATGM carriers (like bmp3, bmd4, btr82at, bmpt) use laser guided atgm (no cable).

[UNN_Daedalos]

@KhorneFlakez1337

From my experience those work a lot better than people claim they do, also redfor nations don’t even have FnF ATGMs on their ground vehicles

Did an experience back when MMP was added

100 shot fired at the T-64a in the test drive (easy target compared to what you encounter in a real match, no lock interference or contact-5 / relikt)

half a chance of one shot, up to 6 shots necessary in about 2% of cases

They are absolutely not a reliable way of getting rid of someone in a match

EBRC Jaguar

I made a small graph regarding MMP efficiency following @DirectSupport 's idea: Rules : The test is done after MMP buff (version 2.0.50.28) To avoid any weird behavior, i respawn when T-64 turret pops off, to avoid false lock or hitting a raised barrel in the way 1125m from T-64 in test drive, on resupply point Firing on target until it dies 100 Destructions in total each shot is going to one category : Destruction (blue) Critical hit : crew or module destroyed (orange) Hit : no crew, no mod…

[An_Pigeon]

@KhorneFlakez1337

From my experience those work a lot better than people claim they do, also redfor nations don’t even have FnF ATGMs on their ground vehicles

Same here they’re super handy to have and use compared to standard ATGMs

@KhorneFlakez1337

Haven’t had that problem in a long time

They fixed it a while ago man , it used to be a headache but not now.

@KhorneFlakez1337

NATO MBTs literally have the best darts in the game (except for the 152mm on the Object 292)
The best USSR dart has 580mm pen and the best Chinese dart has 577mm pen
M829A2 has 629mm pen, DM53 has 653mm pen, M338 has 611mm pen, Type 10 has 610mm pen, only the Leclercs and CR2s darts are worse than redfor darts

The Nato MBTs also offer faster reloads.
Only dart which I think is worse overall is the T84 Oplots.

@KhorneFlakez1337

FnF ATGMs deserve to burn in hell and I am going to die on that hill

SadRIPer:

All of them should be removed from helis etc.

@KhorneFlakez1337

I must be an outlier then

ItsOnyy:

You aren’t man, the majority of my kills with spike carrying vehicles come from said spikes.

@gfdsa_killer

I

@gfdsa_killer

They do not, I can easily make you a compilation of spike launches and not even half gonna be lethal hits

Which you can easily find videos of them functioning as well.

@KhorneFlakez1337

Ok, don’t argue with me then

I’m having a great time with Spikes and my buddies have been having great success with them as well

He will literally ignore what you say then call you a russian main xD what he did to me even though mymost used top tiers are britain and USA

EDIT I mean the ZT96B chinese prem got dropped and they broke it right away xD he just tlaks nonsense.

the new pantsir may not have been necessary to the game TBH and in my humble opinion the BMPT should be removedand reworked completely.

[ItsOnyy]

@An Pigeon

You aren’t man, the majority of my kills with spike carrying vehicles come from said spikes.

This is next level gaslighting; I main the Puma and Vilkas and I can tell you with a high degree of confidence that they are absolute dogwater. Their performance would greatly improve if they were modeled as top-attack and not the sea-skimming BS we have now. I’d take 4 Atakas or Khrizantemas I can actually guide and aim over some RNG missile that’s underperforming.

[gfdsa_killer]

@An Pigeon

Which you can easily find videos of them functioning as well.

Why I would need to watch YT videos if I use spike carriers myself (grinding for the Eitan)? And they do not work most of the times.

[KhorneFlakez1337]

Now, I do a lot of testing in test drive as well, but I have found that for certain weapons the performance in test drive doesn’t really reflect the real gameplay performance

You only ever hit the same few spots in those tests, your target doesn’t move, the target vehicle doesn’t change, your only variations are (judging by the test rules) the angle at which the missile gets launched and your launch position and those variations can’t be all too big

Maybe it’s just the way I use them (or again, maybe I’m an outlier), but I’ve found them to work great on maps with rough terrain and ones with bush/tree patches (bonus points if there are high spots to sit on to off-set the lack of true top attack lol)

When I can see the target, I avoid firing them frontally at USSR tanks because of their turret shape and the possibility of ERA being in the way and Merkavas, because of their module and crew layout

Favoured targets are light vehicles, NATO and Chinese MBTs, helicopters and approaching planes
(I also like to use the Spikes against BMPTs, just to harass them, but I will admit, that isn’t a good way to actually kill them)

I’ve got no experience with them in actual top tier, so if the performance against 11.7+ MBTs is the actual issue, I won’t be able to argue that

Spoiler

Or maybe my time playing low tier Britain (and watching people Track-and-Barrel Torture heavies) has made me value crippling an opponent more than outright killing them lol

[An_Pigeon]

@ItsOnyy

This is next level gaslighting; I main the Puma and Vilkas and I can tell you with a high degree of confidence that they are absolute dogwater.

Sounds like your opinion to me mate, they work fine for me.

@ItsOnyy

Their performance would greatly improve if they were modeled as top-attack and not the sea-skimming BS we have now.

Naturally the would, which I am all for but if they get it they’ll absolutely dominate too.
There are no ground fired ATGMs which do proper top attack, like lofting etc.
Also my Spikes don’t skim all the time they go up and over like they should if it’s at a decent range.

@ItsOnyy

I’d take 4 Atakas or Khrizantemas I can actually guide and aim over some RNG missile that’s underperforming.

I’d take a spiek I can lock n launch over them any day.
Again personal feelings.

@gfdsa_killer

Why I would need to watch YT videos if I use spike carriers myself (grinding for the Eitan)? And they do not work most of the times.

aye, I too am using them on the Namer before and when I return to isreal, so I do know how they work, They’ve gotten me 90 percent of my namer kills xD not many but I’ve used it very little.

[gfdsa_killer]

@An Pigeon

aye, I too am using them on the Namer before and when I return to isreal, so I do know how they work, They’ve gotten me 90 percent of my namer kills xD not many but I’ve used it very little.

I have used spike a lot in my matches, and I can say they do not perform well, at least not for the BR as they stand (except AH-60, that one should stay and LDIRCM ones should go higher)

We can easily settle this with recording our 3 first matches of the day using Namer or other spike ground carrier and count how many of the spikes launched resulted in critical hits/kills.

[UNN_Daedalos]

this whole thing is personal experience

It’s all pointless.

Here’s an other : they are less efficient in an actual match compared to test drive from my experience

Now what

@An Pigeon

There are no ground fired ATGMs which do proper top attack, like lofting etc.

Let’s not pretend the mere 5-20° angle at hit we have in game is similar to the 30-45 one we have IRL
Let’s also not pretend this is a game limitation since LMURs do it just fine.

[An_Pigeon]

@UNN_Daedalos

Let’s also not pretend this is a game limitation since LMURs do it just fine.

What ground vehicles firing Lmurs?

@gfdsa_killer

We can easily settle this with recording our 3 first matches of the day using Namer or other spike ground carrier and count how many of the spikes launched resulted in critical hits/kills.

Sure when im done with italy mate
Or i can use spikes on the freccia when I get it

[ItsOnyy]

@An Pigeon

What ground vehicles firing Lmurs?

Spikes/MMP are top attack missiles, regardless if they are air or ground launched lol.

[UNN_Daedalos]

@An Pigeon

What ground vehicles firing Lmurs?

So Gaijin can’t model lofting because the missile is ground fired ?

What kind of logic is that exactly ?

[BasherBenDawg8]

@KhorneFlakez1337

Why are you bringing up JAGMs PARS and LMURs when the point is about ground launched FnF ATGMs

I’d prefer if we didn’t talk about ground launched in general, since CAS/Pantsir is a subject of this thread. If there are correlations being made to the loft angles of western FnF atgms and them being present on ground vehicles is being seen as their reason for its incorrect modeling as well that’s fine.

[An_Pigeon]

@ItsOnyy

Spikes/MMP are top attack missiles, regardless if they are air or ground launched lol.

well seeing as the topics about the pantsir is it really relevant?

As well as that , there are no ground fired ATGMs which should be lofting modelled correctly, including chinese ones.

@UNN_Daedalos

So Gaijin can’t model lofting because the missile is ground fired ?

What kind of logic is that exactly ?

Not at all, but there are currently none in game, and I reckon if they whacked it onto spikes and such they would absolutely wrekc the game even more than what’s already going on.

@BasherBenDawg8

I’d prefer if we didn’t talk about ground launched in general, since CAS/Pantsir is a subject of this thread. If there are correlations being made to the loft angles of western FnF atgms and them being present on ground vehicles is being seen as their reason for its incorrect modeling as well that’s fine.

They ahve been made and should be implemented TBF

[UNN_Daedalos]

@An Pigeon

Not at all, but there are currently none in game, and I reckon if they whacked it onto spikes and such they would absolutely wrekc the game even more than what’s already going on.

None what ?

Lofting ATGMs ?

Spikes and MMP do not exist ?

@An Pigeon

and I reckon if they whacked it onto spikes and such they would absolutely wrekc the game even more than what’s already going on.

Br is here for this reason, although i imagine it wouldn’t manage to get worse than the BMPT + top tier russian line up even if the br was left untouched

[KhorneFlakez1337]

Right, we went a bit off-topic after “Russian bias” came back up

Gaijin definitely should work on giving other weapons their capabilities after one of their kind got said capabilities

Similarly they should work on fixing existing SAMs/SPAAGs and giving them necessary features