A-10C?
I don’t really recall this ever being the case, except when helis first released it was more common to see 1Zs hovering 4-5km directly above the battlefield dropping TOW missiles, there was nothing stopping the 35M from doing the same thing. Hellfires were always cheeks, the 35M did have some dominance for a short time but that was more on the 2S6 being the only SAM at the time.
After that S-13 rush and Vikhrs happened as far as heli history is concerned
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And your source for this is? Can you show me some comparison clips or data that you personally recorded in both?
It also has the most obstructive gun angles of any top tier MBTs.
The Abrams just has considerably better handling when it comes to turning and acceleration, combined with considerably less obstructive gun angles and a better reload make it a far better tank to directly fight other tanks in.
Oh German players suffer from a massive skill issue, but so do US mains like you.
I can, because the 2A5, 2A6, PSO, 2PL and 2A4M are equal to the 12.0 Abrams at best, arguably even worse once the next major update hits the live server.
See? Now I exclude both the 2A7V and SEPv3.
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Reload and shell versatility which equates to superior firepower, better ammunition layout and possibly even better mobility
These are the main benefits the Abrams has over 2A7
Oh, thanks @_Renzo for the reminder
Abrams also has better gun traverse angles
Armour is comparable (or equal) to both, internal layout is probably also comparable/equal besides ammunition
What benefit does 2A7 have over Abrams besides much better shell
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Armor and first shot hull survivability, that is all.
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Yeah I’d rather having better firepower, gun traverse angles and ammo stowage tbh
Not gonna risk maybe surviving one avoidable shot over having everything else be better
- Ignores values presented
Sorry but data is once again data.
Hah, nope the nato hump is not relevant in a comparison as you and year already flogged to death with the T-90M situation.
Same deal the 2A7V sports -9 to +20 elevation, the V3 is -10 to +20 so nope once again, 1 degree of gun depression ain’t cutting it hoss.
21 vs 22 HP/T.
Certifiably wrong unless you now want to acknowledge that the NATO hump is a actual issue.
Once again, single stat crutching on reload, lmao.
Fantastic at least you admit that you were wrong and agree with me on this point then, thank you for being actually candid for once.
Once again reload crutching, however I would love to know what this shell versatility is, you are aware that the 2A7V, are you basing this exclusivly on the fact that M830A1 exists, or the joke that is HE-OR. Reminder that DM11 exists and does the entire job of the HE-OR and M1147 without issue.
Hull ammo being a issue is a certified skill issue if you are having such.
The mobility is similar but slightly worse in the case of the V3 due to it’s ever so slight extra girth.
Feel free to go up above for all the things you and Renzo happily just ignore.
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first shot hull survivability is the abrams since the buff far ahead even tho on both sides it dosnt matter cause the first shot u tank i going to destroy the basket, both sides are dead in the first shot. they just nned to give leopard its reload buff like the abrams and leopard is almost on the same level like abrams v3
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NATO hump is one thing, but for the Leo 2s the NATO hump is pretty much the whole rear half of the tank. Not being able to depress your gun over the nearly rear 180 degrees of your tank is a considerable disadvantage. One incredibly easy to exploit.
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Of course reload rate will be brought up: it’s one of the most important aspects when it comes to the WT meta for a reason.
The M1’s beat the Leopard 2’s in gun handling characteristics. The M1’s gun limitation arc is significantly smaller and it’s got an extra degree of depression.
I’m sorry to be blunt, but the people who think hp/t ratio matters and determines what vehicle is more mobile than the other tend to be inexperienced/newbies. The Leopard 2A6 has better mobility than a T-80BVM, despite the notable hp/t difference being in favour of the BVM.
What matter is the way the gearbox is modeled, the SEP v3 is the heaviest M1 yet it still has virtually identical mobility to the 2A7V, save for the fact that the SEP v3 has a higher top speed and reverse speed.
The difference between 2nd generation and 3rd generation thermal sights are extremely negligible, in fact, thermals are overrated in general.
M829A3 and DM53 are nearly identical. If I tasked you with playing 10 battles in a generic MBT, 5 of which using M829A3 and the other 5 with DM53, I bet you couldn’t tell me which was which by the end of it based on their performance differences.
M1A2 Trophy’s APS off-sets the 2A7V’s hull armour, being immune to ground-launched ATGM’s and a good portion of air-launched ATGM’s is arguably more useful that a (not that massive) difference in hull armour.
The SEP v3 also has significantly more consistent turret armour, especially at angled other than the direct front.
Aside from that, the M1 Abrams also has the significant advantage of ESS + Thermals, 50. cals, proxy fuse HEAT.
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Literally the only part where 2A7V excell over SEPv3 is vertical guidance speed. Since SEPv3 has it around 19 and not 10 or bellow it is more than suffcient to the point of irrelevancy of number that 2A7V has. However, aiming angle limitations that 2A7V(and other Leos) have on the sides, noticibly impacts their performance. Because of those limitations Leos are noticibly less reliable in the city/repair combat.
Jamming in the main discussion (Abrams vs Leos):
-Abrams has better firepower (reload and M298A3)
-Abrams has better post pen survivability
-Abrams has better utility both offensive and defensive (ESS, M908, M830A1, M1147, .50 cal turret)
-And after recent volumetric change to the gun mantlet I would argue it has better or in worst case same hull down performance.
While Leos are still better at strict face-to-face engagements, Abrams is better in literally any other scenario - 1vX engagmeents, CQB, flanking, self defence against air.
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It’s incredibly broken in air SIM if you want to count it idk🤷
The 2a7v armor seems to be poorly modeled, like a bug; it seems to be disabled with a single shot. Based on my gameplay experience, the 2a6 feels more durable. I’m not sure if this was intentional or a bug.
Air sim mb, its legal cheat in that mode
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SB and 9Ms at 11.3 RB was interesting. Though I am not an air player so feel free to dog on me for a bad take.
2A7V just has a terrible turret model.
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Ok.
Pros and cons of 2A7V vs SEPv3:
SEPv3 has:
Better reload
Better reverse
Better forwards mobility
Better horizontal gun angles
Better depression
ESS
.50 Cal
Better turret
Better overall APFSDS
Better utility shells
Better hull side composite
Better survivability, arguably (v3 can get shot in LFP and still fire back)
2A7V has:
Slightly more pen
Gen 3 therms (huge!) vs Gen 2
Better hull armor
More smokes
Better vertical drive (huge!) (40 deg/s vs 20)
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MAWS, HMD with built in IFF. No need to t-6-1, you see black dot you swat black dot with missile. And if smb sends missile you get warning and auto flare. Irccm is neat thing ofc but in most cases enemy has no idea missile is coming for them. Thats one of reasons to like sim - everyone relies on their vision instead of markers and sneak attacks, ir missiles become very deadly. Even aim9b.
Forgot to mention that all those trinkets come with cost. You are moving at snail pace.
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I was laughing my butt off on this.
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