The MZ Carousel (T-64, T-80...) should restrict horizontal traverse when hit

[minijohro]

First of all I did not want to continue the multiple existing threads nor the Reddit post about it, because the discussions have moved far away from the original topic and have become very hard to follow.
“Responding to dev server feedback regarding turret baskets”
“Reddit Post about the Same topic”
Post about the same Topic but is missing explanations

Current Issue:
In War Thunder, damage to the MZ autoloader carousel on T‑64/T‑80 tanks only disables loading, but it never influences horizontal turret traverse. This is not consistent with how similar damage is already modeled on many NATO MBTs, where hits to the turret basket can restrict or block traverse.

Real‑World Mechanics:
On T‑64/T‑80 the MZ autoloader carousel is physically suspended from the turret basket / turret floor, very close to the turret ring. When it is hit and deforms, bent steel parts and jammed bearings can mechanically interfere with the traverse mechanism.

Spoiler

On the T‑72 family the AZ carousel is mounted on the hull floor, separate from the turret ring. Even if the carousel is damaged, it is much less likely to block traverse; it mainly kills the loading system, not the turret drive.

NATO MBTs (Abrams, Challenger 2, Leo 2, Leclerc, etc.) already have a similar mechanic in game: if the turret baskets are hit and heavily deformed, traverse can be slowed or temporarily blocked, because the damaged steel structure physically collides with the hull or other fixed parts during rotation.

Why the MZ carousel should behave similarly
Functionally, a deformed MZ carousel is like a large internal steel “basket” attached to the turret. If that structure is pushed out of shape by HEAT/KE spall or an internal explosion, it can protrude into the path of rotating components, just as a bent NATO basket protrudes into the path between turret and hull.
Both are mainly steel structures sitting in or around the turret ring area. If we accept that baskets on NATO tanks can restrict traverse when damaged, then an Turret‑mounted carousel on the T‑64/T‑80 should plausibly have the same gameplay effect when heavily deformed.

Proposed Game Mechanic
Light damage to MZ carousel:

• Autoloader disabled or slowed.
• Turret traverse speed reduced (for example −20–30%).

Severe damage / strong deformation:

• Turret traverse may be heavily reduced or partly blocked (dead zones in certain angles, or temporary “stuck” turret until repaired).

T‑72 / AZ system:

• Keep current behavior: autoloader damage does not normally affect traverse, because the carousel is in the hull and not directly part of the rotating turret structure.

Thank you for reading. Excuse my bad English and my subpar post it’s my first one in this forum.

[Milashny_Koteyka]

@minijohro

because the damaged steel structure physically collides with the hull or other fixed parts during rotation.

No, because the basket contains mechanisms that rotate the turret, E.G. powerlines, hydraulic presses and lines, ect.

And T-serie rotation mechaisms are only positioned in turret. Already modelled.
Tho i can see how it can be implemented, but why should it? USSR tanks are already garbage tanks. Why making them worse now because “balance changes” made by adding baskets to NATO side made NATO tanks less survivable?

[minijohro]

I’m specifically talking about the structural steel that physically connects the MZ carousel to the turret basket not electronics or hydraulics.

If you read the original thread mentioned in the first link, you’d see that deformation of structural steel components (like NATO turret baskets) already disables or restricts turret traverse in-game. The same realistic physics should apply to the T-64/T-80’s turret-mounted MZ carousel steel structure when it’s hit and deformed.

[Milashny_Koteyka]

@minijohro

If you read the original thread mentioned in the first link, you’d see that deformation of structural steel components (like NATO turret baskets) already disables or restricts turret traverse in-game

And AS I ALREADY MENTIONED, if you’ll manage to read the post provided by that first link, you’ll see that:

So the “turret not rotate” isnt because “steel jammed”. Steel jammed is an ADDITION TO the fact that most of rotation mechanisms are positioned in basket.

[minijohro]

So you think that only because one condition is met, it shouldn’t be added?

[minijohro]

I didn’t want it to be implemented to balance them, but rather to make them more realistic. And looking at the most recent win rates, they don’t seem to be that bad.

[tripod2008]

@Milashny_Koteyka

the fact that most of rotation mechanisms are positioned in basket.

?

Can you please point out these mechanisms?

[Cloudzy26160]

Or they should properly model the traverse components on the turret basket and only disable the travers if those are destroyed, they should also fix whatever it is that stops the manual systems from functioning when power systems are lost.

@minijohro

but rather to make them more realistic.

Go play a few games of Gunner HEAT PC and see how fun having all those systems modeled is (spoiled: it’s not fun at all)
I’ve already largely quite GRB due to it turning into a repair simulator

@minijohro

looking at the most recent win rates, they don’t seem to be that bad.

having busted CAS dose not make their tanks good.

@tripod2008

Can you please point out these mechanisms?

and what is that even out of?

[Milashny_Koteyka]

I believe that current damage model of MZ and AZ is already depressing enough, and making it unrealistic AND worse for the sole reason of “make it same as M1s basket” is practically unfair.

[Mburger03]

sure looks like hydraulics to me…

[Milashny_Koteyka]

@tripod2008

Can you please point out these mechanisms?

You see, there are such things as…

And you COULD go with the first link the man provided to see that :/

[tripod2008]

@Milashny_Koteyka

the sole reason of “make it same as M1s basket” is practically unfair.

Shouldn’t all Vehicles be treated fairly?

[Ralin]

This is the loading mechanism’s hydraulics. This cylinder is already modeled in the game.

[Milashny_Koteyka]

@tripod2008

Shouldn’t all Vehicles be treated fairly?

They already are. MZ and AZ both when hit disable some of the tank abilities. Different abilities with turret basket, but that doesnt make it unfair.

[Константинович7]

Yes, as it should and Gaijin made lately. Truly unfair treatment is leaving Type 90 and Type 10 missing these components promised to majority of the top tier vehicles for the longest at this point.

[Milashny_Koteyka]

@Cloudzy26160

they should also fix whatever it is that stops the manual systems from functioning when power systems are lost.

That would be fair to do actually.

[tripod2008]

@Milashny_Koteyka

You see, there are such things as

None of that even has anything to to do with the Turret traverse, the system is in the Engine compartment or above the turret line.

[minijohro]

This change wouldn’t make it unrealistic, and it’s not even that big of a deal since the ammo goes off most of the time anyway. In the rare cases that it doesn’t, it would just make things fair.

[minijohro]

could you add some details?

[tripod2008]

@Milashny_Koteyka

Different abilities with turret basket, but that doesnt make it unfair.

Yes it does, the volume that one would need to hit in order to disable both the reload and Turret traverse is vastly different.

Further if you have a shell loaded you can still aim and shoot with a damaged Autoloader.

You take out the turret basket you can’t refine the point of aim, regardless of if you have a shell loaded or not.