The M1 Abram should be updated with the M833 or M900

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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Hello everyone!

Today I’m here to talk about how the M1 Abram armed with the M68A1 main gun is missing a round that would bring it to par to the other tanks at it’s respective Battle Rating (BR).

The following is information is based off in game stats and Realistic BR as of 17OCT2024. This will also include the introduction of the model of vehicle (if produced), BR of the vehicle(s), the statistic of the round and the year of initial production of said round. If said country doesn’t have a Main Battle tank (MBT) at that BR, I will then roll down to the next BR in that tree. So let’s dive in.

~USA - The Americans have 2 MBTs at 10.7. The 105mm M1 Abram, armed with the M68A1 gun, was first introduced in 1980 with the current best round it has in game, the M774 (1980). In game, the M774 has a penetration value of 372mm at 10m at 0* angle and 215mm at 60* angle. The US also have the M1 KVT, which is armed with the same gun and ammunition.
NOTE The USA does hold the M900 at a lower BR for the tech tree and premium M1128 Wolfpack (10.3), which were built in 2002.

~Germany - The Germans only have 2 MBTs at 10.7. The Leopard 2A4, armed with the Rheinmetall Rh120 L/44, was first introduced in 1979 and currently has the DM23 (1983). In game, the DM23 has the penetration value of 410mm at 10m at 0* angle and 237mm at 60* angle. The Germans also have Lepard 2A4, Panzerbataillion 123 and is armed with the same gun and round.

~Russia - The Russians have 3 10.7 MBTs; The T-80B (1985) armed with the 2A46M-1, Object 292 (1990) armed with the LP-83 gun and the T-72M2 Monderna (1992) armed with the 2A46MS. The T-80B’s top round is the 3BM42 (1986) with an in-game penetration value of 457mm at 10m at 0* angle and 264mm at 60* angle. The Object 292’s only APFSDS round is the “152mm APFSDS” (and no, I’m not joking. That’s literally what it is called in game) has an in-game penetration value of 695mm at 10m at 0* angle and 401mm at 60* angle. The T-72M2’s top round is the TAPNA (late 1990s? I genuinely cannot find a reliable source about this round) with an in-game penetration value of 509mm at 10m at 0* angle and 294mm at 60* angle.

~Britain - The British have 4 10.7 MBTs; The Challanger 1 Mark 3 (1986), the Vickers Mk 7 (1985), Challanger 1 Mk 3 DS (1986), all armed with the armed with the L11A5 gun, and the T-90S Bhishma TWMP (2001) armed with the 2A46M. The best ammo with the L11A5 gun is the L26 with an in-game penetration value of 471mm at 10m at 0* angle and 272mm at 60* angle. The T-90S’ best round is the 3BM42 (1986) with an in-game penetration value of 457mm at 10m at 0* angle and 264mm at 60* angle.

~Japan - There is no 10.7 MBT in the Japanese tech tree so the next lowest BR tank is the Type 16, introduced in 2016, at 9.7. It is armed with the JSW gun with the best round being the Type 93 (1993) with an in-game penetration value of 405mm at 10m at 0* angle and 234mm at 60*.

~China - There is no 10.7 MBT in the Chinese tech tree so the next lowest BR MBT is the ZTZ96A and ZTZ96A (P) (1997) at 10.3. They are armed with the Type 88C gun with the best round being the Type 1985-I (1993) (in reality, it’s called the 125-I. Unsure why the game and the WT wiki don’t match) with an in-game penetration value of 466mm at 10m at 0* angle and 269mm at 60* angle.

~Italy - The Italians get 2 10.7 MBTs, the Ariate (P) (1995) armed with the OTO Breda 120/44 gun and the Leopard 2A4 armed with the Rheinmetall Rh120 L/44 (1979). The Ariate (P)'s best round is the DM33 (1987) with an in-game penetration value of 481mm at 10m at 0* angle and 278mm at 60* angle. The Leopard 2A4’s best round is the DM23 has an in-game penetration value of 410mm at 10m at 0* angle and 237mm at 60* angle.

~France - There is no 10.7 MBT in the French tree so the next lowest BR tank/MBT is the Vextra 105 (shown off in 1997 in trials) and the AMX-40 (first prototype built in 1983) at 9.7. The Vextra is armed with the Giat 105 G2 gun with its best round being the OFL 105 F1 (1981) with an in-game penetration value of 361mm at 10m at 0* angle and 209mm at 60* angle. The AMX-40 is armed with the GIAT 120-25 G1 gun with its best ammo being the OFL 120 G1 (1981) with an in-game penetration value of 394mm at 10m at 0* angle and 228mm at 60* angle.

~Sweden - The Swedish have 3 10.7 MBTs, the Strv 121, Leopard 2A4 and the Strv 121B Christian II (1979 from a hull side). All three are armed with the Rheinmetall Rh120 L/44 (with the Strv 121 and Christian II having the license-built variant, the kan strv 121) and their best ammo is the DM23 (1983) with an in-game penetration value of 410mm at 10m at 0* angle and 237mm at 60* angle.

~Israel - There is no 10.7 MBT in the Israeli tech tree so the next lowest BR tank is the Merkava Siman 2 Bet Dor Dalet (1997) at 9.7. Its best ammo is the M413 (1985) with an in-game penetration value of 408mm at 10m at 0* angle and 236mm at 60* angle.

In-game analysis: With this information now shown, the M1 Abram has the worst ammo for its BR by 38mm at 0* angle and 22mm at 60* angle (and even beaten out by whole 1.0 LOWER BR ammo by 29mm at 0* angle and 13mm at 60* angle) at minimum. At maximum with a normal tech tree tank, it’s beaten out by whopping 109mm at 0* angle and 63mm at 60* angle.

Historical aspect: This is the round the tank INTIALLY came out with in 1980 and is the top round for it in game. This was quickly replaced by the M883 round in 1983 and then eventually the M900A1 in 1991 (source for the M900 is the following TM TB_9-2350-356-14.pdf (combatindex.com)). These rounds weren’t limited to the IMP1 because the only difference between the original production of M1s and the IMP1 was an upgraded turret and survivability. There’s NO change to the gun as both carry the M68A1 and both were retired alongside each other in 1996.

Opinion: It’s time to bring the 105mm M1 Abram to par with its BR with rounds it had historically. It doesn’t make any sense from a gameplay mechanic to increase the M1 from 10.3 to 10.7 with no update to the ammunition when the current best ammo can’t deal with most targets in an up tier while every other nation gets further development of their ammunition, especially after Gaijin removed the shell shatter mechanic on the UFP (the whole reason the hull is angled like that in real life). That’s not even mentioning the fact the best APFSDS on the M1 is literally worse than every other 10.7’s FIRST APFSDS round. I’d personally recommend the M833 at a minimum due to the fact this would pull the stats to 395mm of penetration at 10m at 0* angle and 228mm at 60*. It would still make it the worst 10.7 round but at least it would be SLIGHTLY more competitive than where it is now.

What do y’all think?

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least obvious rage bait post

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M900 would make it 11.3, and M833 would probably make it go to 11.0.

Also there is a topic about this exact thing that is active right now.

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You surely have time to write this,

As all vehicles, most of them actually, above 9.3 was moved a BR above, there’s no need to add anything new for those vehicles, very few had new features during the BR changes but nothing much big,

M1 Abrams still perform the same way when it was 10.3, now it’s 10.7 along with all others 10.3 vehicles, it doesn’t make any sense for adding a new shell because: “I’m a USA main, I don’t knew that there are a BR change for every vehicle over 9.3 so I’ll complain in the forums because the Abrams is missing a ammunition for a 105 mm cannon.”.

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There is a reason, the abrams has some of the best mobility at its BR, use that to flank and get side shots, aiming for ammo in vehicles without blowout panels, and ones with blowout panels aim for side of turret

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Production dates don’t matter in this game, shells are given/taken to vehicles by Gaijin in order to buff/nerf them and M1 for sure doesn’t need any more buffs.

Most stuff at 10.3 got moved up to 10.7, M1 isn’t the only one so everything remains pretty much the same.

UFP will still bounce shots.

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Except I own both German and Russia in this Battle Rating. Ironic you claim the US Main argument looks at the name in Cyrillic Let’s see, you’ve got 38 vehicles in the US tech tree and 127 in the USSR versus my 273 USA and 246 USSR. Assuming you haven’t just bought your way to the top of the tech tree, I’d say your experience in the game is lacking, especially at this BR. With all due respect, if you’re going to come here and debate, debate the statistics and not the player.

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How is using statistics to show how underpowered the 105 M1 is when compared to the same BR a rage bait?

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If that’s the case, why is the wolfpack a 10.0 tank with M900?

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It is a lightly armoured tank with poor gun handling, a very large size, and it’s wheeled. For example, the Nashorn is 5.3 with a long 88mm, but that doesn’t make it on par with a Tiger II.

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Except most maps are now urban fights within 500 yards of normal engagement range at that Battle Rating. Sure, there’s the occasional map where you can do flanking moves through wood line but those are far and few between in comparison. Still doesn’t give a solid reason why the M1 105 shouldn’t get ammo on par to the other nations as other NATO tanks still have similar mobility as the M1.

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out of the 2 listed rounds m833 would be more reasonable

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It would do just fine with the M774 at that BR then. Come on, give me a valid reason why the M1 can’t be on par to rest of the game?

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That’s fair and how I feel about it.

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What do you mean?

According to other players, it is already one of the best 10.7 tanks. M833 might be enough to push it to 11.0, and M900 would make it 11.3.

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  1. That’s fair, just showing that other tanks get access to rounds that were built further into their lifespan.
  2. I know, but it COULD have stayed at 10.3. It still isn’t any more viable of a tank at 10.7 than it was before the update in Battle Rating to decompress tanks.
  3. 9/10 (hyperbole but still happens a lot in personal experience), it bounces it into the turret ring and it still goes through. Gaijin themselves removed APFSDS shattering a few months back due to it “not working the way they want” so hopefully when that mechanic gets restored, the survivability will become a LITTLE better by shattering those shots.
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That’s ironic as the US has the worst win rate of top tier (starting at 10.3 to current max). We’re talking 40ish% win rate v 60% as the next lowest. But, you’d also have to own the tanks at that BR and play them to know what I’m talking about.

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its a difference of 13mm at 60 and 23 flat it wouldn’t be a big enough change to warrant a br jump
(833 not 900)

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Alot of those vehicles, e.g Abrams, shouldn’t have been moved up at all

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I’ve gone through their profiles. They 1) don’t have tanks at that Battle Rating that are tech tree variants and 2) don’t own the 105 M1 Abram. It’s always funny to me that the ones that get upset about the M1 getting a round somewhat on par to the counterparts are the ones who don’t play that area of the game.