The Leclerc is in dire need of a buff

[Mobius_Einherjar]

I wasn’t expecting any of the report to be implemented this patch, but no spall liners is so fucking bullshit I went from being willing to pay to unlock the Mirage 4000 & buying a talisman to dropping WT altogether to play Like a Dragon games instead.

Seriously, the Leclerc is the tank that needs it the most due to the Nitroglycerin-filled fuel tank (also applies to the Type 10, which also didn’t get it)

@_David_Bowie

I cannot forward reports to developers that do not meet the standards.

Report on the liner requires at least some information about the liner’s placement, shape.

If it’s integrated in the armor composition then you know it’s classified info and we can’t give you that.
Just implement it like it is on the Leo and be done with it.

And before you say “iT’s NoT sUfFiCiEnT iNfO”:

• All MBTs with liners have a similar coverage because Kevlar, Teflon, etc… weights is essentially nothing on vehicles that weight 50+ tons, so there’s no reason to not cover the crew compartment with it.

• When gaijin decided to implement modern vehicles still classified, they made a conscious decision that the armor of these vehicles would be approximate and based on guesswork. The community has already done gaijin’s work (for free) by proving that the Leclerc has spall liners, now it’s up to them to do their damn job.
  Guessing another part of the armor isn’t going to break shit, and gaijin has already crossed that bridge of their own volition a long time ago

@LETHALWEAPONRAC_1

Leclerc armor fixes have been DENIED by the developers. Only thing left we can pray for is spall liners.

This is fucking disgusting. No matter what we do, they’ll never accept ANYTHING to change the armor. Even if we somehow got classified info, they would just go “classified info, can’t use it lol should’ve been playing Russia lmao”
It really shows that even if we play by gaijin’s rules they just don’t care.
And it’s not limited to the Leclerc, the 2a7 is missing D tech and its additional armor is worse than the Strv 122 from the 90s, Abrams missing their DU insert, the armor issues with the Type 10, Challengers and Merkavas… I feel we’re reaching a boiling point , and it might happen sooner than they think.

And they’ll be all surprisedpikachu.meme when their next controversy will result in another review bomb. The blatant disdain and disrespect of the player base is fueling the mistrust and annoyance towards them (without excusing or justifying doxing and threats however)

@Avierno

In reality, you say that, but it’s not even up to us to provide this information (which is moreover “classified”). We have too normalized the work and the ability of the War Thunder community to provide information to developers to improve the game. But in what other game do we see this with a development team equivalent to Gaijin’s? Is it their game or ours? I agree, it’s important for consumers to share their opinions & feelings about the game so that developers can correct it. But here it’s THE COMMUNITY that’s doing THEIR job, FOR FREE, and THEY are blatantly SHITTING on us. It’s SHAMEFUL, I’ve never seen anything like it in my life

Edit : I’m a bit on edge because of the news

Not only are we doing it for free, we’re even spending our own money to procure documents to try and get them to fix their errors, and they still don’t give a shit.

Gaijin can be pretty disrespectful and abusive towards players, sometimes I feel like I have battered wife syndrome trying to deal with them. Easily one of the worst developer I’ve had the displeasure to deal with.
There are thousands of devs who would grateful to have a playerbase as invested as WT’s in making their game a better product. Meanwhile all we get is a complete lack of fucks given.

@WaretaGarasu

Report about incorrect reload for all Leclercs

Should’ve pinged me on Discord man, I’d have sent you my GIAT brochure supporting it.

[Miraz05]

Why Leclercs get overpressured so easily? I shot a few Leclercs mantlet with M1A1 AIM’s HEAT round and everytime it overpressured the Leclercs. Seems like Leclercs have even weaker armor than some light tanks.

[aDSD]

Overpressure is just generally wacky.

[Miraz05]

I haven’t been able to overpressure any other top tier mbt apart from the french and japanese ones

[aDSD]

I know you can overpressure T series with China HEAT, shooting to the turret close to the hull.

[MS_Phantasm]

I’m no expert at reading that graph, but that is just straight up vile if they also have no idea what they’re looking at and are just telling us we’re wrong.

[MS_Phantasm]

Good comment, you seem to feel pretty much the same as the rest of us because we’re all saying the same thing differently.
Which is just frustrating to see more because we’re all coming to the same conclusion.

[FIRE-EAGLE21]

I think we need to stop proving that Leclerc has bugs, it will never succeed. It would be necessary to prove that France is in reality Russia and the bugs should be corrected fairly quickly.

[We Are All One]

At this point, Gaijin just simply asking French mains to give them review bombs. Gaijin is basically saying: Please review bomb me you filthy french mains, your actions won’t hurt me at all. Cuz there are not so many of you maggots.

[WaretaGarasu]

Leclerc MBTs acceleration & turning rate are too low // Gaijin.net // Issues

Improved and edited report about the mobility, using Swedish and Greek trials as references.

[LuaJa]

Thanks for the work on the reports, I hope it works out

[Flame2512]

@Bossman919

Am I looking at these graphs wrong?

My understanding is that both the diagram an graph are relevant to the turret rotated 20° to the right. I.e. like this in game:

Spoiler

The coloured diagram on the left is showing the areas of the turret which meet the protection requirement (700 mm KE / 1,200 mm CE).

The Graph on the right is showing the percentage of the exposed turret area which meets each protection level. The vertical axis is labelled “Skyddad yto (%)” which translates to “Protected Surface (%)”, with a note that the total exposed turret area is 1.7m2. The horizontal axis is labelled “Skyddanivo (mm RHA)” which translates to “Protection level (mm RHA)”.

As an example the graph is saying that (when angled at 20°) 60% of the exposed area is protected to at least 400 mm RHA against KE (while 40% of the exposed area has less than 400 mm KE protection).

So as a quick summary:

• 60% of the exposed area is protected to at least 400 mm RHA KE
• 47% of the exposed area is protected to at least 500 mm RHA KE
• 40% of the exposed area is protected to at least 600 mm RHA KE
• 19% of the exposed area is protected to at least 700 mm RHA KE
• 14% of the exposed area is protected to at least 800 mm RHA KE

In terms of whether the armour model in game matches the Swedish trails:

The area of green for KE protection under the gunner’s sight, which you mentioned, can indeed not be penetrated when angled at 20° in game:

Spoiler

And there is a portion of the left turret cheek which meets 1,200 mm of KE protection, as on the diagram:

Spoiler

And without counting all the individual pixels to tell the exact percentage I would say that roughly 40% of the exposed area can be penetrated by a 400 mm pen KE round, as suggested by the graph:

Spoiler

So the in game armour model does seem to match the Swedish trials. You’re welcome to do the maths and work out the exact % of the turret area protected to each level if you want, then use that for a bug report if you think that the armour is underperforming compared to the Swedish trials.

The only other way I can see the Leclerc getting bug reported is to show what improvements were made to the Later models of the Leclerc and then ask for them to be given correspondingly better armour compared to the S1 (I imagine that has be tried before though?).

[Mulatu_Astatke]

Thanks a lot for this in-depth breakdown.

@Flame2512

The only other way I can see the Leclerc getting bug reported is to show what improvements were made to the Later models of the Leclerc

Unfortunately there seems to be no armor estimates for the SXXI. So far, our position is to try and prove that the Swedish trials Leclerc =/= finalised Leclerc. We’re putting together some more sources and trying to collect some more information. So far it looks hopeful.

Among other things, it does help when the source of these same graphs also states the Leclerc “was not mature enough”

[Folpagli]

Fairly certain SHARD, being made to replace OFL 120 F2, would be leaps and bounds better, since it is a 2022 APFSDS.

[Flame2512]

@Bossman919

it does help when the source of these same graphs also states the Leclerc “was not mature enough”

It does. However from what I’ve seen people talk about online wasn’t that primarily about the powertrain, rather than the armour (which people seem to say was fairly finalised)?

I’m no expert on the Leclerc / Swedish trials though, so feel free to correct me.

[totolescargo]

The Leclerc that was brought for the Swedish trials was NOT the production model. Its armor was unfinished. For this reason, the Swedish trials shouldn’t be used as reference.

[Mulatu_Astatke]

We’ve come across an article that stated the project as a whole was not complete and that later testing by the UAE showed the hull could withstand OFL 120 F2 which is generally regarded as being able to penetrate 640mm RHA at 2000m.

Additionally, at the Greek trials the Leclerc performed much better in almost every category compared to at the Swedish trials.

At the end of the day, there is no way of knowing how ‘finished’ the Leclerc was in Sweden, so we should only consider sources that discuss a final product.

[fergui3101]

Can’t we just make a bug report stating this point? Like saying their sources are unreliable?

[Thedefender1O]

Without necessarily talking about armour, the ideal would be to increase its firepower. Where 95% of high thirds have shells piercing more than 600mm, the Leclerc tank only pierces 575mm, which is certainly not bad but not enough. I experienced this myself today. I shot at the you of a leopard and it was impossible to penetrate because at least 600mm was needed. The Leclerc could be a good tank but for the moment it’s the one that’s taking all the knocks. And what I find a shame is that the 4 Leclercs are identical. Apart from a tiny bit of armour, there’s nothing to differentiate them. Gajin could put in new shells for the T8s (OFL 120 F1A or OFL 120 F2).

[I_Love_Reisen]

which source is this?