The Leclerc is in dire need of a buff

[rainy2000]

M1A1’s turret cheek armour is around ~460mm, whereas the Leclerc’s is somewhere around ~590mm.

You can penetrate the M1A1’s armour just as easily as with the Ariete’s other than the UFP at >200m (though the Ariete has no safe ammo stowage) with rounds with 480mm+.
You are easily penetrated by 120mm DM33, L7A1, 3BM46, 3BM60, etc…

You can’t penetrate the Leclerc’s turret armour even with 3BM60. You must shoot 590-600mm+ pen darts to reliably penetrate at most angles and ranges, which most tanks at 12.0 definitely don’t have.

The one more pop of smoke is definitely nice, bur still won’t afford you two full repairs in smoke, and ESS can be still useful at top tier, but its effectiveness is much less at ~12.0 than something like 9.0 or even 10.3. No turret basket is also quite nice at the moment.

[Magikッ]

@rainy2000

M1A1’s turret cheek armour is around ~460mm, whereas the Leclerc’s is somewhere around ~590mm.

However, you have this, breach is not even 90mm.

I’d say just the snappiness of the Abrams chassis edges out the Leclerc, I don’t really care for the armor or thermals too much, as both have quite a lack of armor anyway.

[An_Pigeon]

@Magikッ

Both have very similar turret armor except the Leclercs breach

as @rainy2000 stated the abrams turret is quite a lot worse thanthat of the leclerc.

@Magikッ

I’d say just the snappiness of the Abrams chassis edges out the Leclerc, I don’t really care for the armor or thermals too much, as both have quite a lack of armor anyway.

The Leclerc in my experience feels snappier tbh, though both are excellant tanks

[Magikッ]

@An Pigeon

as @rainy2000 stated the abrams turret is quite a lot worse thanthat of the leclerc.

I will admit I didn’t know the Leclerc was built like that.
Regardless, both don’t have great turret armor against top tier vehicles, hence why I think both should be 12.0.

[An_Pigeon]

@Magikッ

Regardless, both don’t have great turret armor against top tier vehicles, hence why I think both should be 12.0.

Leclerc should be 12.3 at least, As much as I would like it to sit lower, it is comparable to the 2A5, or the other 12.3s like the VT4 and ZTZ.
M1A1 should be at least 11.7 , right now it completely cominates the 10.3 - 11.3 area, as well as puts to shame some tanks like CR2

[Magikッ]

@An Pigeon

M1A1 should be at least 11.7 , right now it completely cominates the 10.3 - 11.3 area, as well as puts to shame some tanks like CR2

HC Specs need to be 12.7 so the M1A1 can be 12.0, 10.7s have no business fighting this thing tbh. I don’t think the differences warrant a .3 or even .7 BR gap between it and the Leclerc.

[An_Pigeon]

@Magikッ

HC Specs need to be 12.7 so the M1A1 can be 12.0,

Oh I agree, the M1A2, and teh M1A1 HC need to be 12.7 but they never will, we have the Click bait whichis identical to them , if the others moved to 12.7 they would need to.

as well as this the blatant ODLing in american teams leaves the stats of them lower

[Magikッ]

@An Pigeon

The Leclerc in my experience feels snappier tbh, though both are excellant tanks

Okay, ran a test. Both take 17s to reach 68 KM/H. Just the S1 though, others are more than 3t heavier iirc.

[An_Pigeon]

@Magikッ

Okay, ran a test. Both take 17s to reach 68 KM/H. Just the S1 though, others are more than 3t heavier iirc.

The m1a2 and a1 HC are also heavier no?

[Magikッ]

57.2 (M1A1) vs 61.4 for the HC.

[UNN_Daedalos]

Leclerc S1, S2 and Azur should be 12.3 (with their hull fixed => stronger upper plate, weaker lower plate)

SXXI still lacks the titanium inserts. It and XLR could go up to 12.7, especially if they receive SHARD

[An_Pigeon]

Yeah they are slightly more sluggish over all

[Magikッ]

The list so far, still testing more tanks.
Mine Protection/Dozer Removed, Tested On Road

[An_Pigeon]

You shouldn’t do 0- top speed, as it’ll make the ones which are have a higher top speed seem slower, do it 0- 68 or just 0 - 60

[Magikッ]

I have 0-60 listed in the first column, just good to know how long it takes to reach top speed as well.

[rainy2000]

S1 doesn’t get the right turret composite the SXXI gets. But it is faster than the SXXI as a result.
And yes, 0-60 is probably the more important metric because of how CQC plays out.

[Alpharius11348]

honestly adding a 0-30 could be nice, if you are doing more testing, just because that means a lot in close quarters/urban areas

and should be a better approximation to how “snappy” they feel

[PARDUS_IX]

how many french vehicles got brune de terre camo on dev? saw a leclerc get it.

[joze5]

Iirc only Leclerc and Jaguar

[Yamatzu]

Shot with OFL F1 & Leclerc AZUR, was pretty much spot on but zero damage at the end. He killed me OC. Is it me, F1 lacking or T-80 shadow buff ?