The Leclerc is in dire need of a buff

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
5587

Not that it matters, since the shell is purely french, hasn’t been bought by anyone and is already tested, it could already come right now (I seem to recall you want KF-51 in the german tree and there’s plenty of non used in service vehicles everywhere : leopard 2k, XM803, MBT-70)

Would also allow for a separation in Leclerc line ups between S1, S2 and Azure compared to SXXI and Leclerc XLR whenever it comes

I don’t see how a shell giving 85+mm to one of the weakest shell in game is a problem to you

8 Likes
5588

I find jt works well at its br tbh mate.

The m1a2 shouldn’t be as low as it is, but leclerc is pretty strong due to how versitile it is

3 Likes
5589

FAB-500 btw.

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5590

I think the M1A2, M1A1 HC / Clickbait, M1A1 AIM, and Leclerc could be the same BR (of 12.3).

Though I think Sep V1, Leopard 2A7V, and Type 10 are even more versatile and yet are still at the same BR 😅

5591

Type 10 defenitily shouldnt be there. The only things its better then leclerc is reliad and maybe mobility but not very much. Gun handling is terrible for types and they have no armor and small ready rack compare to leclerc.
Leclercs are much better then Types.
Leo 2a7 may has stronger armor and better survivability and round, but has worse reload and significaly worse mobility with pretty same gun handling so this two tanks are rather different options for different players and i prefer Leclercs over Leos.
Sep V1 and V2 are pretty same as Leclerc and there are not lots of differences.
To sum up, Leclercs are Top Tier material and i dont see any reasons them to be at 12.3 coz they are very good, universal tanks without any big problem like -4kmph for soviets or >=6sec reload like leos or Nato hump and so on. They are good at everything without throwbacks, other tanks mau be good at one thing but very bad at other that why Leclercs are at 12.7 and i support this dissicion from Gayjing and there is not problem with its br.

5592

4s reload is very good for versatility. People can barely push you effectively after you shot unless the Type 10 has nowhere to go.
You can kill multiple tanks in quick succession as well.
If you fail to kill, 4s reload helps you quickly kill with a second shot.

The Type 10 also has a much better round (615mm pen instead of just 576mm pen), so it can lol-pen tanks like the Leclerc and some parts of the UFP of the T-80UE-1, and has better spalling as a result of better residual penetration.

The Type 10 has better versatile gun depression (because of suspension control), though Leclerc has slightly better fixed gun depression.

Type 10 has similar overall mobility, though has much better reverse speed.

Type 10 has worse overall turret armour (Leclerc has ~590mm all-around but only 80mm breech armour) but better specific turret armour ( Type 10 has some places around the turret cheeks where it adds up to ~600/~650mm, but others only ~400mm, breech is also better).

The Type 10 does have much worse gun handling and smaller ready rack, though, so I agree with you that the Type 10 is not as great of an all-rounder as something like the Abrams or 2A7V.

I think Leclercs can get into better positions than Leopard 2A7Vs, but they often can’t handle targets nearly as well as 2A7Vs, especially in hull-down positions despite the 5s reload. The 5s reload is nice for flanks though, so I guess you’re right that it really depends on the playstyle.

I think there are quite big differences in performance in some key aspects.
The Abrams have much better APFSDS round, so in a 1v1 against the Leclerc, the Abrams can lol-pen the cheeks of the Leclerc and quite possibly blow up its ammo, or at least damage its autoloader while the Leclerc cannot (and thus has to go for the breech or the turret ring if the Abrams isn’t too careful).
The Abrams can also utilize its better gun depression as well.

The better acceleration of the Leclerc (~26.7 HP/TON vs ~24.5 HP/TON), the lack of NATO hump, and the separate sides for the gunner and commander is nice, but I think in most cases the Abrams is better in terms of overall versatility and for the ‘flanking’ playstyle while still having some capacity to absorb shots from pretty much all top tier MBTs.

4 Likes
5593

Yeap, you’re right, but in match there is not much problem with 5sec reload and 5sec is almost always enough but sometimes the 4 sec reload is gamechanger here BUT the throw backs for types to have this reload is problem and as you said, types arent universal and depends from your luck more. You can do 5 kills in types in less then 20 second but you can also die due to massive lack of gun handling ( hapened with me many times, espacialy vertical gun handling)

Tbh, i penned t80ue1 UFP from Leclercs lots of time but sometimes OFL 120 F1 is a bit unreliable with piercing but damage is good and if you shoot properly its usualy oneshot unless it is War Thunder Moment…

You’re right in terms of 1v1, but in match something like turret ring is very big problem for abrams and if you pen abrams with Leclerc you going to brake its turret and engine with 80% chance and after 5secs you will kill it so its pretty big aspect for Abrams. But overall its depends from player skill and how he manage to play on Abrams.

Depend on player skill, crew level, and enemy team overall skill. I was able to do every thing Abrams can with Leclerc and every thing Leclerc can i was able to do on Abrams so they are pretty same, the abrams may have better armor then Leclerc on paper but in battle both can tank few shots and survive 1 or sometimes more hits.

If you agree with everything, then i don’t undestand why you think that Leclercs should be at 12.3… But its your opinion and there is nothing wrong with it ;}

2 Likes
5594

Massively less mobile, and worse reload.

Type ten yeah better round , reload, worse gun laying. Worse.optics ? Could be off there.

M1A2 is more versitile.

5595

But better gun depression, and much better survivability, round and armour – being very effective as a front-line tank and in hull-down sniping positions, but also still very relevant in CQC 1v1 situations.

Somewhat.
The min zoom is 4.0x for the Type 10, compared to the Leclerc’s 3.3x and the Abrams’ 3.0x, though I’m not sure how much worse that truly is. It’s definitely not the 8.8x - 10.0x zoom of the Type 90’s.
Type 10’s max zoom is 13.3x, which is better than the Leclerc’s 10.0x zoom and the Abrams’ 13.0x zoom (though this one is barely a difference).

I agree, and so why must the Leclerc be at the same BR as the M1A2 SEP V1?

1 Like
5596

Because the way gaijin balance.
Not that i agree wirh it, but the leclerc is extremely good for what it is to be fair, i was absolutely alarmed by it when i got it.

Though it and tbe S.2 could be 12.3 in all fairness.

5597

Not really massively less mobile. It has worse top speed, but in the 0-30kph range the Leclerc doesn’t accelerate faster than the Leo 2a7v (or it’s barely noticeable). The turning ability of the Leclerc isn’t really much better from my experience (I don’t play the 7V specifically but AFAIK its not worse than 2A5 and 2A6 that I’ve played).

5598

2a7 is more sluggish due to the weight.
Also limited to 61kph.

Im currently working on tbe 2a7 now as wlel

5599

Russian Bias, surely!?

5600

Leclerc is equal to M1A1 tbh, move M1A1 HC specs to 12.7 and make the M1A1/Leclerc 12.0.

1 Like
5601

12.3 ,leclerc is a wee bit better, due to mobility, optics and slightly trollier armour

1 Like
5602

Leclerc has much better turret armour, better thermals, no NATO hump and slightly better mobility, but worse gun depression and worse round.

I’d rather take the Leclerc over M1A1 in most cases to be honest.

I think the AIM / M1A2 / HC / Click-Bait and Leclerc are similar in capabilities. Hence both should be 12.3.
Either worse round than M829A2 (KE-W) for better Thermals, or M829A2 for worse thermals.

12.0 may be too low for Leclerc, and Type 90 has similar potential to M1A1 anyways, unless you want to move it up too. Similar armour, better mobility, much better reload and better situational versatility, more effectice trolly armour, and Gunner + Commander on opposite sides bonus, at the cost of a much worse round, worse fixed gun depression, much worse optics and gun handling.

2 Likes
5603

@An_Pigeon In a race the Leclerc actually loses, even the S1. The transmission’s gearing is not the best.
Both have very similar turret armor except the Leclercs breach is far larger and is way weaker. Abrams also has other utilities like the MPAT, more smokes, ESS, etc.

5604

M1A1’s turret cheek armour is around ~460mm, whereas the Leclerc’s is somewhere around ~590mm.

You can penetrate the M1A1’s armour just as easily as with the Ariete’s other than the UFP at >200m (though the Ariete has no safe ammo stowage) with rounds with 480mm+.
You are easily penetrated by 120mm DM33, L7A1, 3BM46, 3BM60, etc…

You can’t penetrate the Leclerc’s turret armour even with 3BM60. You must shoot 590-600mm+ pen darts to reliably penetrate at most angles and ranges, which most tanks at 12.0 definitely don’t have.

The one more pop of smoke is definitely nice, bur still won’t afford you two full repairs in smoke, and ESS can be still useful at top tier, but its effectiveness is much less at ~12.0 than something like 9.0 or even 10.3. No turret basket is also quite nice at the moment.

1 Like
5605

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However, you have this, breach is not even 90mm.

I’d say just the snappiness of the Abrams chassis edges out the Leclerc, I don’t really care for the armor or thermals too much, as both have quite a lack of armor anyway.

1 Like
5606

as @rainy2000 stated the abrams turret is quite a lot worse thanthat of the leclerc.

The Leclerc in my experience feels snappier tbh, though both are excellant tanks

2 Likes