ok i see
Still it contradicts what the view says, so i’m not really sure that would change anything tbh. But yeah the 3D model could be reduced to 560 ish mm i suppose
hull from 700mm to 580mm
wouldnt that basically paper hull
Well to put it into perspective, with the current KE modifiers, it would put the beak at roughly Leopard 2A6s level of protection (~460mm RHAe KE), while the upper plate should, assuming Gaijin doesn’t pull anything out of their asses this time around, get buffed to about ~500mm RHAe KE, or the level CR 2s upper plate currently sits at.
Most already just shoot the upper plate, but at least the tank would become immune to majority of mid-tier projectiles, and it would change exactly nothing against high tier projectiles (DM53/M829A2/Type 10, etc).
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If Leclerc hull armor was 650mm+ this thread prob wouldn’t exist.
I think he read that out of context and believed you were saying effective armor and not raw thickness.
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As jecka said it would make it weaker but not butter still. At least the UFP would be a bit more survivable.
The whole Leclerc line is flawed anyway, S1 and SXXI have no businesss being at the same BR in the first place
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The BRs have no place being this compressed to begin with. Somehow Gaijin is capable of making 3rd gen airframes not fight against the EFT/Rafale, yet Leclerc S1/S2 and all the Arietes get to fight the 2A7s and 122s…? xD
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Yup, they decompressed air quite a lot (not enough i know, but still) but not ground at all, for some reason i can’t yet understand.
France top tier is also in this kind of weird spot where the air dev team keeps buffing the Rafale over and over again (hello 15G), while the ground dev team still can’t fix the damn manpads and is forgetting half the wheelie vehicle fleet (a special though to EBRC, still lost somewhere), it’s really strange.
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Its gutted, like the interior is removed and filled with blocks.
I think that’s the LEAST of the concerns with the Leclerc
I’m taking issue with the hull armor, especially since its x-ray modeled to have at least 550mm LOS thickness on the upper plate yet only models the two steel plates for ~300mm of LOS thickness.
@Jεcka 's posts are pretty much what I was complaining about in 2023 and 2024.
While I’d love extra turret armor, at least that has bounced sometimes.
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I don’t want to sound rude or agressive, just adding to the conversation, but, you come to this thread talking about how bad the Leclerc armor is using a 3D model from KNDS website, and when the Leo 2 is brought up in the conversation about a 3D model from the same website, it can be dismissed, as “the Leo is gutted” to only show infos “deemed safe enough to be released”. That does sound like a double standard, and if the Leo 2 model can be dismissed, the Leclerc should likewise be dismissed because it shows the website’s 3D models, although “primary”, gives inaccurate/heavily undermined informations.
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Because it is gutted? I’m sorry but what else am I supposed to tell? I don’t know KNDS’ reasoning for releasing a 3D model of the 2A7+ without pretty much any details about its armor cavities. If they had, I’d be posting them in German threads.
This is how it looks from the inside on the 2A7 model:
There is nothing to indicate where the armor cavity ends like on the Leclerc, they didn’t even model the internal plates on it, so I have literally nothing to go off on.
The wedges are also empty
And the gun area.
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we speak about them because we actualy compared both models and saw the differences?
The leo 2a7v has clear differences where stuff was removed, hell there is points where u can look into it from the outside
That is not the case with the leclerc
I’m not complaining that the Leo 2 is gutted, just saying that if one model is gutted, the other most probably also be wrong. As I said in my first post about the matter, Giat (and Nexter, and visibly KNDS as a whole today) have a tendency to not give accurate geometry of their vehicles. That was shown in the diagrams of the Leclerc from the 90s and 2000s, and that’s obviously shown in the Leo 2 model. I haven’t had a look at the model because I absolutely have no idea how to use blender, but following this track record the model of the Leclerc obviously cannot be used for a report.
To me, it more than likely looks like a graphic designer did a blender model tracing the geometry on a diagram, without following exact measurements, to create the overall geometry of the vehicle
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This is a slippery slope…
Just because X is unfinished doesn’t mean Y has to be unfinished as well. Gah, the fact one very clearly shows that its at vastly more advanced stage of modeling should be an indication that they’re likely going to update the Leo 2 model in the future as well.
Why Leo 2 is currently so gutted is not known to me, I’ve only speculated why it is, you really needn’t take my speculations on that at face value.
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buddy just look at the actual model and look for yourself lol, you are complaining about it and didnt even look at it yourself yet realy.
The points we bring up are clearly in the model without signs of removal etc, You holding onto that in that moment is just plain hope from your side not wanting to see the truth
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Hoz is that slippery lol. If someone you hired does a bad job at something, how can you expect them to do it correctly in another situation. Assuming that while one is incorrect the other one is correct should logically be the slippery slope.
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yeah, you are trying to gaslight yourself not wanting it to be the truth.
There is clear quality differences between the 2 proving
is not the case
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Damn I’m just expressing doubts and I am instantly “holding onto that moment”. Guess some people might really be pissed that France is actually highly competitive at top tier thanks to it’s air lineup
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Because you are assuming it’s bad modeling… when it could be ya know… an early release… a stage release, meant to show off KNDS’s ability to model things in 3D, there’s a lotta reasons, yours is almost definitely not one of them.
The models are currently more accurate externally than War Thunder’s (and I plan on using the Leo 2 model in bug reports for the 2A7V and 2A7HUN), fun fact -,-
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