Do you have news of all our requests from gajin?
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AMX30 arent awful
okay the B2 and Brenus maybe are because of not having a Stab, but the amx 30 1972 is a nice tank imo
Leclerc S1 and S2 should be 11.3, not 11,7, after Gaijin buffed all of M1A1s reload time, Leclerc’s firepower and armor is worse than M1A1hc/aim
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Hi @Smin1080p,
I was just wondering what the delay is for the dev’s response to the current bug report about the Leclerc’s reload (which includes primary sources) considering there was a very prompt response to the previous bug report on the issue.
I also saw this old bug report on the same issue, the response from the devs which you passed on was:
The developers have reviewed the sources provided and currently, they are insufficient to provide enough credible information for a change.
The value we currently have is based on active footage of the tank firing showing 6 seconds for the reload.
I was wondering if this footage could be cause for the delay; furthermore, if it was possible for us to see this footage so we could get to the bottom of this bug report. Especially, since in the last bug report on the matter, the dev response differed:
Below is data from the work of Marc Chassillan (most respected specialist of French tanks). 10 rounds per minute. We consider this value to be the main one at the moment.
Nevermind that Chassillan is (at the end of the day) a secondary source who has proven over time to not be 100% accurate.
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During the Chieftain replacement, GIAT submitted a proposal where they claimed a 6 second reload rate;
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I think the biggest problem France faces is that they have many vehicles that have not been added to the game, such as the Leclerc prototype, the Leclerc 35mm anti-aircraft gun, and many wheeled vehicles. Their gift pack tank should also launch a new product now
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Hello
There is no delay. Reload rate reports are treated as suggestions. Reload rates are a soft balance mechanism in the game. So there is no definitive period at which it may be resolved. There are however a number of credible sources that claim 6 seconds to be correct, which must also be taken into account.
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While i do know about this UK Document, i don’t see how this would impact the actual Leclerc we have in game.
This claim is from 1988-90:
This UK document is not about the Leclerc S1 as well, but about its prototypes. Also, the Leclerc was considered operational in november 1998, so the UK claim is 8-10 years older regarding to that as well, depending how much you want to be generous.
Spoiler
However, even if we count this UK Document was from 1998, i don’t see how a document from UK should outweight several ( 10+ ) secondary sources from different authors and even GIAT own brochure:
Quite much says “Redoublement du feu en moins de 6 secondes.”, which means a next shot can be fired in less than 6 seconds.
So my question is how come an UK document, 8 years older than the time the Leclerc entered in service should have priority against GIAT own brochure? British sources shouldnt detract from French sources. yet here we are.
How much they are? Its possible to see them together with the video that was claimed by the devs to show the tank firing its taking 6 seconds for the reload?
Because currently there are 1 primary source that state the contrary, several videos, some of them from GIAT that shows a 5 seconds reload time, together with 14 secondary sources that states the same. what about them?
I can understand the reload is currently held back because of soft-balancing, but i would like to atleast see the devs acknoledge the fact the tank can reload faster, instead of blindly refusing reports that present multiple sources.
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As mentioned above, the report has not been refused. Currently it is open and there has been no definite conclusion to it yet. I was simply clarifying A) reloads are a soft balance mechanism B) there are a range of sources currently taken into consideration that provide values of 6.
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All good, thanks for the heads up.
Different doc this one is from late December 1991.
This leaves a little up to interpretation, it’s possible the 6 seconds is the maximum time to reload. So from firing the gun at maximum elevation or depression to round in the closed breech? Less than 6 seconds could be the ideal conditions (breech is already level with the autoloaded.)
I’m not saying it’s impossible that the autoloader could’ve improved from 1991 onward, just that the brochure claiming less than 6 seconds doesn’t necessarily mean 5 seconds.
I think the issue here is that there seems to be a dishonest response to these bug reports about reload. Almost 3 years ago, the ‘main value’ for the Leclerc’s reload was “active footage”. Fast forwards a few years and now the ‘main value’ is citing a secondary source (which seems rather hypocritical nonetheless). So either the “active footage” got lost somewhere in the mean time, or it never existed in the first place.
Now that footage is actually provided along with a primary source and a dozen secondary sources, the position of the developers seems to pivot from ‘insufficient evidence has been provided for us to change it’ to ‘we were never going to change it anyway’.
So right now, I do think that the devs are being dishonest. I think I speak on almost everyone in this thread when I say that it would be a show of good faith to provide us with this “active footage” or for the devs to at least admit they don’t want to buff the Leclerc.
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The fact that the brochure states that reloading takes less than 6 seconds should invalidate every other source claiming that it takes 6 seconds.
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All good, my bad about it then.
I agree with you, but its backed up with videos and other sources, and it certanly means its less than what currently is.
I don’t see how this would matter in a game perspective, since in the game no autoloaded MBT’s need to level out their barrel for starting the reload, while for some of them its necessary. The reload mechanism takes 5 seconds, this is backed up by videos, this is all that matters for that regard, since other tanks that use autoloaders are not affected or forced to level their barrel, and manually loaded tanks don’t get penalities to the reload for not leveling out the barrel before the reload.
Of course i would agree with you if Devs wanted to introduce such mechanics, like auto-leveling of the barrel on resting position before reloading for autoloeaded tanks, adding penalities to manual loaded tanks if the barrel is not leveled out and adding penalities to the reload if manually loaded tanks are moving at high speed/though hilly terrain- all of those things can affect the reload, but none of those are in game, so unless they get implemented in the game i don’t think they should be taken into account. The game is overly simplified on this matter, vehicles shouldn’t suffer from this.
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Sure and I watch those videos, two of them with timers started at completely different times. Also I somewhat take issue with really old videos uploaded to Youtube. The transcoding of older videos can lead to dropped frames and uneven playback. I don’t like to accept a videos for timing purposes.
As an example once uploaded to Youtube the framerate is increased by 5fps;
Neither of the two I watch set the same standard of when the reload began. The GIAT video the door was already open and the breech already level, the other doc video the door was closed.
So at least with the videos I’m not 100% satisfied with that being a direct 1:1 of the reload.
Agreed but if I’m not mistake I think the game uses maximum reload times for that reason.
Overall my position would be 6 seconds is the maximum time and the less than 6 seconds is the variance between the breech position and the autoloader.
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Again, i don’t see how that would matter in a game perspective since the Leclerc, together with many other autoloaded tanks is forced to have the barrel in resting position before even starting the reload, this is not a thing in game and it shouldn’t be counted. Im sorry if the the timer is not perfectly accurate.
This is another footage of the Leclerc: Char leclerc 6 coups en 1mn (youtube.com), from a GIAT testing.
Spoiler
Unfortunately we cannot see the internals so we cannot estimate it to be sure, reason why i decided to not include it on the bug report, but if you do watch the video, you can see that the barrel from a resting position (-1.8 degrees) takes roughly 5 ( or, less than 6 seconds, depends how you look at it ) seconds, without taking into account barrel going to resting position, take into account that without the barrel doing in resting position, the reload process doesn’t even start, and during the whole reload process the barrel is locked it, so once the barrel moves the reload is ended.
Im not sure of this, but then manually loaded going by that logic should get affected by a slower reload as well, accuracy goes both ways, it is certanly harder to reload a elevated barrel than a perfectly leveled one.
I agree with you and i do think devs should introduce such things like the fact the barrel needs to be leveled, so it would be finally be accurate. But for now without any of those previously mentioned features the reload should be 5 seconds because thats how much the autoloader mechasism takes alone.
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No worries mate, there is no animosity here. Always good to hash these things out.
Yeah I’m not 100% on it, naturally as its a soft balance stat in game there is variance on the reloads used for different vehicles.
I’m glad we can come to some agreement! If the Leclerc starts underperforming as bad the Abrams series then I’m sure the Devs will consider a faster reload. Just French mains are doing a stellar job of not being that bad haha.
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Ya my favorite part is when my HEAT shell is absorbed by gas tanks.
I have an issue with the analysis of users performance to buff (it’s more about fixing here rather than buffing…) or not a vehicle
It’s not France’s mains fault if USA players are really bad with on the game, I mean our Leclercs are becoming so weak that obviously our KD is improving because we are so cautious about getting OS that we play very carefully
A vehicle should be fixed to his real characteristics he got IRL no matter what is his KD ratio
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Feels sad to directly hear from a technical mod that us France players might have to start “underperforming” (playing absolutely terrible) for us to get any sort of attention from devs.
120mm Abrams were already amazing tanks before the reload buff, yet once top tier U.S ground winrates crumbled under the weight of the KVT/Clickbait noobs, devs immediately rushed to their aid with a buff that did absolutely NOTHING to resolve the WR issue, and instead made an already good tank even better, along with further invalidating Leclerc’s autoloader at a time when most NATO tanks could already match or exceed it.
It’s 2024 and top tier France is still stuck with the horribly mediocre OFL-F1 (DM43) as it’s best APFSDS, and Leclerc’s armor report has still been rejected based off an armor test against a prototype with a completely different armor package. Leclerc’s armor is so horribly modeled that the UFP of a tank that was required to resist 125mm APFSDS across it’s frontal arc can’t even stop post-nerf 105mm M735, one of the WORST 105mm APFSDS shells in the game and BY FAR worse than any APFSDS projectile fired by the soviet 125mm.
Top tier Italy already got DM63 as pity from the devs despite having high winrates, and its getting to the point where a lot of us France players are wondering if the devs are just going to leave our vehicles in their current states or give us a slight buff like a reload time reduction or better round to make them statistically competative again.
Don’t mistake player performance for a vehicle being “competative”. I can 100% bet you the French and Italian M26 Pershing’s are absolutely killing it in performance stats, but that in no way means the M26 belongs at 6.7. Having vehicles get put on the back burner despite their gimped states just because the players play well feels like such a terrible way to do things and makes a lot of us think about how we could be performing way better by just playing another nation with actually competative tanks like the Strv 122’s and Leopard 2A7V.
The Leclerc’s armor is garbage, it’s firepower is garbage, it’s reload has been nerfed into being average, and it’s mobility still remains gimped because of the lack of hyperbar.
Just please, give us something.
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