you ask me lol.
Wish i would now, general consensus is its the reaction to gajin buffing the relikt armor , but france has it got worse of.
i got no real clue, just annoys me. Sweden is now the definitiv best leo nation with that change
The French ministry of Defense has placed an order for them in December 2025.
And based on the following video, it has been ready for production since October 2023:
So nah, it’s complete at this point.
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Thank you for proving my point of the french behaviour so beautifuly lol
A demonstration shot on a unmanned cannon by far does not mean its finished.
Thats the cope i meaned not being able to differentiate between promotional marketing pieces and official development finish of a project. The thing you are showing of is described as TRL7.
There is still 2 stages left until it reaches TRL9 and is official finished and ready for production.
6 months ago they finalised it and showed of its shooting on leopards.
If it would be completly finished like you said since 3 years, that would be a poor show of its abilities and not being able to find any users, with them having to beg their own goverment to buy it.
It’s already started production since January 2026
The round still needs approval from the end user - french army - after integration on Leclerc’s FCS but has been qualified by KNDS already (under supervision of DGA).
DM53, never used on Leclercs, would most likely also need qualification from DGA/french army after integration to Leclerc’s FCS.
Basically, both round are at the same stage from a purely french usage stance.
Except the french gov wants to go ahead with Shard, not the DM family, so it would be far more logical to give SHARD and not DM (would also avoid the copy paste slop)
I mean you can push back the deadline by a few years with this kind of reasoning, but by 2029 when the fist full batch is delivered you won’t have much left to stand on.
And if you really want to use the “not in dotation” argument for SHARD, don’t try to present DM53 as an acceptable alternative right after
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Yes now its pretty much finishwd and in the last step of verification by france itself
But its not finished and ready for producrion since 2023 like mobius claimed.
Thats the main issue i have.
Tell that the italian, british and swedish army for gajin.
I think you missed the whole point why i brought up the DM53 in the first place.
There is just not enough known about penetrator data of the SHARD. Gajin despises rough information like the 15% increase that was stated once, thats why i said the DM53 is just more likely, cause gajin is lazy.
Gajin would want a primary statement about a penetration number or penetrator data which is both missing.
Me stating about TRL7 was 3 years ago,in answer to mobius.
I realy think your misunderstood quite a bit of what i wrote.
My main statemens were french asked for Shard since years when it only finished development recently.
While its implementation could be discussed now at its current development stand, there just is not enough data for gajin and thats why the DM53 slop.spreading to more tanks is just more likely (not a fan of that either)
You are mixing reality and gajin a good bit there.
DM53 has already claimed nato sharing capability as far as i am aware. Thats good enough for gajin
I’d argue most APDFSDS currently at top tier are mostly guesstimates anyway.
And some are asking for some relatively unkown 140mm prototypes, or even DM73 or 83, dimensions and weight of which are, as far as i’m aware, mostly unknown.
One more, one less, what does it change at this point.
Regarding UK, Italy and sweden the situation is slightly different since they never developped equivalent ammo. Though SHARD could still be added to other MBTs since it’s also pitched to be 120mm NATO compatible (and it seems some would like to see it on their tanks in game Shard APFSDS for Ariete)
We know the total length of the reound (984mm), the total weight (22kg) one could estimate the penetrator length and diameter i suppose, or Gaijin will pull a classic Gaijin and find a source they’ll never show, who knows.
Point is, Shard is far from being the only ammo with that problem
Britain is apparently using DM53 for trials work on Challenger 3.
Haven’t people pixel measured photos of the penetrator in flight to get a reasonable idea of it’s dimensions. Seems like about as good as you can get for most modern rounds.
there i am missing the context,
DM53 penetrator wioth velocity etc it can be calculated correctly, not like it would be much of a difference, the biggest difference would be it being inert.
And i completly think it cant be added at this point, the damn round aint finished yet either
the round with the same problem? no, but of the ones implemented yes
wasnt that DM63a1? as well
yeah and gajins says screw this to those explanations
I’m not the one making this claim, KNDS is.
That’s from the video I linked. The video was posted in October 2023.
And here’s an article from February 2024 quoting a KNDS press release that they have completed qualification for the round in late 2023, with firing from a Leclerc and Leopard 2 in December 2023 and restating that it’s ready for mass production:
Jane’s article stating the same around the same time:
And here’s a link to KNDS’ Linkedin from the same period stating the same:
I’m not going to second guess their claim for no reason.
But thanks for the condescending tone of your post.
Or it could just be a promotional video of their current ammunition offering and using the Leopard 2, which is the most widespread MBT in Europe, to signal that all these shells are compatible with it.
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I’m fairly certain in all the 140mm prototypes (Leclerc T4, Leopard 2 140, the swiss one, M1 thumper, Capint, KF-51, EMBT 140) that exist today, some if not most have unknown ammunition. Will it stop Gaijin from adding them ? Probably not.
Most modern stuff is guesstimated any way, and while you are sure all rounds currently present in game all have the information on their penetrator available to public, i would not be so affirmative (can remember that chinese guy leaking an APFSDS back in the days, which means Gaijin got something wrong).
So :
- for one SHARD probably already has some precedents for being added into the game,
- for two my point regarding the situations compared to UK, Italy or Sweden still stands, as they don’t have a similar round.
The fact that the mere existence of this round in game as a DM53 equivalent (or slightly more) bothers you that much can however lead to some eyebrows being raised. You don’t play Leclerc either, and I don’t think having a soap box firing a round every 5s that could potentially be one of the best pen in game could be called unbalanced.
If anything, it would basically be a Type 10 having a worst reload for slighlty better pen.
As i stated from the official knds broschure 2023
A primary source it finished TRL7.
That is in fact not finished development.
Ready for production but still issues to be checked.
And as i previously said, in cae you should be right. Thats pretty pathetic amd speaks volumes about ots performance that they apparantly needed 3 years pf begging for the french goverment to even consider its purchase.
But 2023 only was TRL7, there is still plenty of room for issues that can come up during that time.
Let me lie , but i think for the leo 140 we had that data lying around. There is no real 130mm ammo for the KF51 yet either. Just old rounds upscaled or even in a new catridge.
Nup just stating that in development rounds that arent finished yet shouldnt be added in that stage.
Heck if anything you guys jist getting DM53 should bother me more.
But i am being realistic about the implementations.
Nah you’re just making up stories there
I have a more plausible one for you (That’s where you should go if you are looking for peak french inefficiency) :
It is in production, so the development phase is very much done.
This whole debate is pointless either way, by the time Gaijin fixes it (as every western MBT things), the thing will have been in service for a decade or 2
DM53 to Leclerc before SHARD enters in service with the french army ? I’d call that optimistic X)
For 1990s prototypes that’s possible (though it depends country per country), but for all 140mm all around - some of which still being still refined and tested to this day - I’m doubtful
now yes, but i meaned 3 years ago.
For all sense and purposes now it could be legimitly be added.
I said the whole time it just might be unlikely cause of the lack of information and gajin might decide to trhow the DM53 on the leclercs
game and real life are different things
ok let me rephrase that
"DM53 to Leclerc in game before SHARD enters in service IRL with the french army ? I’d call that optimistic X)
Just give them DM53 like they did with Arietes and problem mostly solved.
A press release and a video linked on their product page (the same page you took that brochure from) is just as much of a primary source as a commercial brochure.
The fact that KNDS was advertising SHARD as being ready for production despite being “only” TRL 7 meant that they considered SHARD to be feature complete, that it met its intended performance and that they weren’t expecting any changes in the last two phases.
Unless you think that they were going to say to potential consumers “yeah we said that it was ready for production but we kinda have 2 more years left of dev to do lol can you wait a bit plz thanks”.
As for the absence of sales during that period, the war in Ukraine has resulted in the destruction of over 5000 MBTs but almost none of them were due to direct engagement between tanks.
In other words: New APFSDS rounds aren’t very high on the list of things that nations are looking into at the moment.
In other words, cause all nations with relevant mbts are getting leo 2a8s and the corresponding DM83 and UK as well and arent intrested in the french round performance wise
Sadly pixel measurement isn’t accepted by gaijin, or I would have been able to buff the CTA40 APFSDS a while ago, since the penetrator length was increased from the dimensions currently used in game. We also have the penetrator diameter-length ratio, so we can get a semi accurate penetrator length estimation.
I asked around and was told it’s not worth making the report as it would not be accepted
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Even if you did, gajin actualy acting on it is another issue.
We got a report for better puma/kf41 rounds.
Be7ng quite a bit heavier
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/9cQ8RRX4mJpo
But like so much gets stuck in limbo.
Oh well maybe we get gajin to implement it during the rework so they can sell the puma premium
1 Like
Sure, that’s another possible explanation.
Not one that’s relevant to the Leclerc however.