Accurate to what?
The challenger 2 uses 2-piece ammo and the loader can lap-load with 1 piece already in his hand, 5 seconds isn’t the fastest it can load either.
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Sorry but I’m strongly against that suggestion. These changes would be indirect nerfs to the Leclerc, Type 90 and Type 10, which are definitely not needed. Doubly so, given that Abrams/Leo 2/Strv 122 have better armor, making them more likely to survive a shot.
It’d be especially bad for the Leclerc, as the opponent would be pretty much guaranteed to fire back faster and the Leclerc are easy OHK. Please no.
My opinion is, again, that problematic tanks should addressed individually, not through global mechanic changes. And let’s be honest: Autoloaders aren’t what makes soviet tanks busted.
This is gaijin we’re talking about, if they make these changes it’ll apply to all autoloaders. And the Type 90/10 and Leclerc do NOT need nerfs.
Also, RNG is a terrible mechanic. Let’s not add it to the game please.
The answer to that question is literally in the quote, come on mate.
I downloaded the video and watched it a 0.13x speed without the sound, stopping as soon as I saw the muzzle flash. The stop were at 02.618 and 06.018, so 3.4s.
That said, I don’t see the gun moving vertically at all, which it should since the gun has to be level with the autoloader for the reload to be possible. What this possibly means is that the crew has prealigned the gun with the autoloader so that it doesn’t have to move the gun to reload, which is where the 0.6s faster reload comes from.
However, if that’s the case then it’s not really a realistic firing scenario as it would require both the Type 10 and its target to be perfectly level, and it’s certainly not possible while on the move.
The video I posted earlier in the thread, where the gun does move, has a 4.082s reload.
I know that, Spanish Avenger’s video showed that I was aware of its existence prior to him posting it.
What I’m saying, for the third time now, is that both the Abrams and the Challengers are capable of 4s reload IRL but are given a 6s and 5s respectively in game for balance reasons.
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You do realise the Leclercs loading process is 5 secs once the gun is locked in place right? It’s also accurate under the same parameters.
same for all tanks …
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I dunno, I’ve never seen a video of the Leclerc doing 5s so I can neither affirm nor deny what you’re saying 🤷♂️
That being said:
Shot at 02.825, barrel starts to come up at 08.412, so 5.587s while on the move. Honestly, I’d be content with a 5.5s/5.6s reload if it comes with other buffs.
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that not want said the autoloader don’t doing his task in 5s. you have the delay of the gunner before firing in good conditions.
Something that should be considered when discussing “realistic” reloads is that manual loaders would get MUCH faster. Challengers without lap loading can still manage 3sec on the move, the same goes for the M1A1/2.
As entertaining as it would be to run around with such a reload game balance does need to be a factor. Do I think the Leclerc needs some compensatory buff? YES, however wishing that everyones favorite tank will be the best is silly. OFL 120 F2 would be a good buff, and a 5sec reload would complement that well, if the armor stayed the same. If the armor receives a major improvement, the shell and reload should stay the same but the turret traverse should be improved.
IMO, when possible balance should be the goal, top tier should be fun with diverse gameplay and a balanced feel, personally i dont appreciate the 65% W/R my T-80BVM has compared to all my other TT MBTs sitting around 50%. (All of these vehicles with several hundred matches)
It shows an unpleasant trend favoring one side.
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Apologies, but I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here.
In real life yes the gunner has work to do once the gun is reloaded as usually you won’t fire at the the same exact target twice, but in game it’s not unusual to have to fire twice at the same target while adjusting your shot as the gun reload, meaning that you can just spam the LMB as soon as the reload is done.
But this is true for every tanks at every tier, and that’s just a quirk of War Thunder vs real life.
Just for the record, no one here is asking for the Leclerc to be the best.
Most people would be pretty happy if the armor could be fixed to reasonable level I think. Maybe add the OFL F2 as well depending on how the armor is post fix, but that’s it. Do keep in mind that the Abrams, Leo 2 & Strv 122 all have better armor and better shells with similar reload, so armor fix + OFL F2 isn’t exactly an outlandish suggestion for the Leclerc.
A reload speed buff is more of a suggestion in a case where gaijin refuses to fix the armor.
You said in you previous post:
It is not because in the video, the time between 2 shoot is 5.6s the reload time is greater than 5s. As you said, the gunner has other IRL tasks that delay the shot.
Complicated reloading code isn’t needed. We already have first stage & latter stages.
That game storage on our PCs can be better used for other far more important things.
Random failures is a bad idea in general, and ripe to genuine nation bias.
All reloads are accurate enough to simulate the fact this is a game where it’s far easier to get gun on target than IRL. Maybe have max speed reload for simulator mode only where you’re restricted to gunner sight & commander ready view.
We should be more concerned about armor than reload rate. Especially when the reload rate is a “meta” 6 seconds.
I didn’t take this into account because it’s not quantifiable given that it’s completely situational. The target may or may not have moved, the tank itself may or may not have moved, etc…
And besides, in game we the players are the gunners, so any delay in treating a target will be up to our personal capabilities. There’s no need for the game to simulate this as it is already represented through our actions.
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By the way, you guys keep on discussing it. I’m sure we’ll reach the point where we’ll have discussed everything there is to discuss around the Leclercs needing a buff, but when that comes, we need to keep on discussing it.
The Devs are only sensitive to threads that are regularly discussed. If we let it die, we won’t get any changes. So please, keep on arguing !
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Agreed, letting the thread die would be the worse thing we could do if we want to see changes.
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I think everyone would appreciate the existing Leclercs to get (any combination of) OFL 120 F2, reload, mobility and armour buffs, but what about more Leclerc variants?
- The Leclerc T4 (in it’s current state as “Terminateur”) would offer an improved EFAB 140 mm gun. I am not sure what kind of ammunition this gun could fire, but if it is any good it could potentially serve as a counter to the current T-80BVM spam (and also pave the way to better protected designs like the T14).
- The E-MBT (in the Eurosatory 2018 version) would pair a Leclerc turret and gun with a Leopard 2A7 chassis. The improved armour of the 2A7 hull would likely fix the Leclerc’s weak hull, although the breech weakspot would remain. I am not sure if the in game mobility would be as good as the Leclerc.
There are of course more variants that however don’t seem particularly promising to me:
- The UAE Leclercs are effectively re-engined Leclerc S1s with a thermal CITV. Since we already have a thermal CITV on the S.XXI it probably wouldn’t offer much beyond another backup vehicle.
- The Leclerc AZUR and XLR upgrades most notably feature additional RPG armour, which like the SEP’s TUSK kit or the Ariete’s PSO kit wouldn’t do much in game beyond increasing the weight.
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The Leclerc T4 (in it’s current state as “Terminateur”) would offer an improved EFAB 140 mm gun. I am not sure what kind of ammunition this gun could fire, but if it is any good it could potentially serve as a counter to the current T-80BVM spam (and also pave the way to better protected designs like the T14).
I’m 100% for it, however adding the T4 will make a lot of players cry, and we started moaning “yes it’s not balanced” "my T-80/Abrams/Leopard has no chance against their guns " etc…
Then other players as well as Gaijin will shout at the prototype and say that in this case it should not be put, well certain players will make Gaijin remind all the Prototype given to the Russians, in this case Gaijin will not answer by doing the technique ostrich or they’ll come up with a bogus excuse.
But yes otherwise you also have the prototype of the Leclerc CT40 with the CT40 turret, turret which can, from memory, receive ATGM launcher tubes “Tire et Oublie”.
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the t4 while a good addition for france would ya make everyone cry that there ufp is useless lmao
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So I did not fully understand the meaning of your sentence (overriding the translation software) but I am for the addition of the T4, and on the contrary, I would like them to be added, I just say that it will upset some players.
im just agreeing with what you said that it will upset people
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I imagine it will be added at some point, but I doubt it’ll be the only higher calibre gun added. It’ll probably be added alongside the 140mm Leopard 2, the CATTB and probably some 152mm soviet tank of some kind (one guess as whether it’ll be balanced or not).
As far as munitions goes, it could get 140mm APFDS as such munitions have been developped for the ASCALON, the successor of the 140mm gun employed on the Terminateur and planned for the MGCS:
Source: ASCALON, du concept aux champs de tirs portugais - FOB - Forces Operations Blog
Source: BLABLACHARS: EN PARLANT DE MUNITIONS
The 2018 version and the 2022 version will probably be added for both France and Germany, but as far as France is concerned they’ll probably be added after the AMX-40 as it’s the “prototype” line.
As far as mobility is concerned, the 2018 version should be better than at least the Leopard 2A6 as it has the same powerpack and hull but a lighter turret.
While this would indeed help France (and Germany, which is starting to lag behind with 2 top tier tank and Sweden essentially being a better German tree), this wouldn’t do much for the Leclerc unfortunately.
I think it could be added as a squadron vehicle if gaijin added the OFL F2 for the S2 and SXXI, that way we’d have a distinction between the S1/UAE Leclercs & S2/SXXI Leclercs.
Hey, don’t forget the remote-controlled roof-mounted machine gun to fight helicopters since gaijin refuses to put the AANF1 on the Leclerc we have in game!
…
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Yeah this would be my general suggestion as well. At the moment everything has to shoot the same weakspots, it might be interesting to have some tanks that can UFP everything, similar to the Ariete before the Russian UFP buff. Maybe it’s a bad idea though, unlike the Ariete many of them wouldn’t be balanced by particularly poor optics, mobility or armour. And some nations like Japan would also be left behind.
Regarding the ammunition, I would expect the EFAB gun to have a reasonably performant prototype sabot shell (if nothing else to demonstrate that there really is a performance uplift) and I would expect it to be able to fire ASCALON shells, but you never know for certain with these things so until I see a source for that I’m going to try to be careful in my phrasing.
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