Sadly, I don’t think it would help too much- it is a very minimal improvement since BM59 and BM60 are the same excluding the DU tip.
BM59:
BM60:
OFL 120 F1 and F2 sits in a similar situation.
I do not recall there was changes to the transmission for it, do you have a source for this?
DU would at least improve the post pen by a good bit
Oh, thank you for the information! I can always count of you for ammunition-related matters, hehe.
So- an improvement to be sure, but not a groundbreaking one indeed. Similar situation as F2, but a bit better, I would say (bigger difference between 59 and 60 than between F1 and F2).
I only recall secondary sources and a propaganda video which could potentially be sped up, but which didn’t seem so to me. Red effect made a video showing skepticism about this.
I don’t know if there are any better sources; but I fully trust that Gaijin will find them if there’s any, hahah. I doubt they would let pass the chance to give Russia an MBT with good reverse speed.
What is the difference in pen of 829A2 and A3 though? I know it’s better vs. ERA but how would it do against plain RHA comparer to A2?
666mm at 0° and 0m!
Not sure what top tier you are playing but Pantsir is still more than capable of dealing with your average F-15E/Rafale/Rafale pilot.
And the CAS the ruins top tier is the Su-34, nothing NATO
Is that a Lanz-Odermatt calculator or something else.
Yep, it is! So 1:1 the values it would have ingame.
The M829A3 value I just gave is via formula, too.
The good thing about Gaijin using the formula is that, if we ever want to know how much a not-yet ingame shell would pen, we just gotta run the formula.
Yep, Gaijin should focus more on the fixes and quality of the new vehicles, rather then quantity of the new vehicles.
Your average F-15E/Rafale/Eurofighter pilot tends to be quite skilled nowdays. Pantsir may be capable in dealing with them, but even if played right you get overwhelmed by the CAS spam. Say, if there is a PARS 3 slinging Eurotiger and a F-15E climbing to space while dropping Paveways…what do you do? The F-15E can see you behind any building and you don’t have enough mobility to hide from the PARS 3s on most maps. Lack of smoke grenades also doesn’t help the Pantsir.
Your range is big, but skilled CAS pilots can bleed your missiles of energy very easily due to the way Pantsir missiles work.
And for Su-34, yes, it can ruin top tier games but it’s not as prevalent. It’s simply not able to stop the onslaught of Spallinerpards and is usually intercepted by AMRAAM slinging NATO aircraft. By the way, Kh-38s launch from about 15km, not 40 or even 20. If you really want it that bad, then give NATO countries their respective SAMs, the NASAMS or IRIS-T could take that role, Israel can get Spyder.
C*S in Top Tier has become literally impossible to deal with.
They used to just fly high in a straight line- annoying, but at least counterable with the best SAMs. Now, they hug the treetops at Mach 1, pop up for 3 seconds while spamming countermeasures, dump a ridiculous number of missiles at a range too close for SAMs to engage, then disappear again into the treetops. Even those still flying high constantly roll and spam flares, draining SAMs’ energy, specially since our locks keep switching to countermeasures or even their fired munitions.
I used to think we just needed better SAMs, but now I’m convinced the only real solution for ground Top Tier players is a Ground-Only; at least just for Top Tier. Lower tier C*S remains somewhat balanced and counterable, but, at Top Tier, these planes are nearly uncounterable… and I doubt more capable SAMs will change much when these planes just remain outside of SAM engagement angles entirely on the first place.
Just look at this example: a single Rafale wiped our entire team in 5 seconds, completely deciding the match. We were winning the ground battle, but we never even had a chance to defend ourselves. The Rafale then rearmed and finished the rest of us on a second pass.
D i s g u s t i n g.
Inaccuracies with CN MBTs:
Protection-
ZTZ99A has vastly underperforming base UFP composite armor, only provides 540mm of KE protection which is comparable to 1980s T-72B despite the 99A’s composite being much thicker and over 20 years newer. Even ZTZ99-III in War Thunder have better protection than the newer 99A.
ZTZ99A’s lower portion of the turret cheek composite are somehow empty according to Gaijin and this creates a huge weakspot that rivals the Abram’s current weak turret ring.
ZTZ99A/VT-4A1 spall liners, ZBD04A spall liners, Al-Khalid/MBT-2000 spall liners.
MBT-2000/Al-Khalid/VT-4A1 all have thinner composite hull armor than in real life, it is missing a backing plate behind the main armor which will provide more protection.
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Firepower-
Max operational loading speed of the autoloader is 9 rounds per minute, or 6.5/6.7 second reload. This holds true for VT-4A1 as well as the document that supports this is the Thai’s tanker manual for the VT-4. Since most tanks at top tier now have received adjustments regarding their reloads, and Gaijin thinks that reload is for balancing reasons, I don’t see why CN MBTs cannot receive this.
DTC10-125 APFSDS should be better than 3BM60 in flat penetration, the energy associated with DTC10-125 is higher in part due to the very high velocity of the round (1760-1770 m/s).
Misc-
VT-4A1 is missing its roof ERA
The hull of ZTZ99A is way too long, it is a completely new hull compared to earlier ZTZ99. Ingame the ZTZ99A is longer than the earlier 99s when in reality it should be shorter.
VT-4A1 ERA size/position/gaps, I could also group this under protection technically.
There’s more issues, but here are some of the main ones that would notably alter the gameplay of these MBTs if they were changed.
All of this is so disappointing… Chinese tanks could be some of the very best in the game on their respective BRs; but they are neglected, mismodelled and nerfed.
Right now, they are sidegrades to Russian MBTs; but if they were fixed, they would be outright better in practically each and every single way except for side armor.
They would certainly be a lot better than what is currently in the game for sure.
At the same time, I would also like to see Gaijin fix problems with the Leclerc/Challenger 2/Arietes, you can group the Merkava in there as well, but knowing Gaijin it likely won’t happen at all or only after years.
RDF/LT was only semi-fixed because Spookston made a video on it that got widespread attention. If Spookston didn’t, I’d bet Gaijin wouldn’t have done anything about it.
Is this just a proposal to fix the top tier MBTs, or to more accurately model everything? Saying this is the most important thing is quite short sighted in my opinion, and those changes wouldn’t actually make the game better as a whole.
Either way, I’d rather have gameplay updates and BR decompression.
Well, it makes better a very large portion of the game; Ground Top Tier. This area attracts lots of attention, both from those who perceive Top Toer as the endgame and those of us who simply enjoy modern war machinery.
Having practically every MBT bugged, nerfed or mismodelled in at least several ways each is, in my opinion, unacceptable; specially when many of these errors were very long ago reported and with the solutions provided by the players.
Players spend countless hours doing the devs’ jobs for free collecting and showcasing all sorts of documentations and sources and not even then can we have the fixes that are indicated…
Regarding decompression- it’s also on my “wishlist patch notes”- up to 13.0 for a start, which should eventually go even higher.
It just isn’t a large portion, and I think that better gameplay and balance will be worth so, so much more than a few fixes to a handful of tanks.
What’s the point of driving ultra accurate tanks if you are still playing the same old and repetitive maps and gameplay? There’s just no effort put into the gameplay, which is so much more important because it affects everything. The most common complaint I see is that the maps and gameplay sucks, and that’s not going to be made better by just fixing the tanks.
The point is that if they get fixed, chances are we won’t get the average modelling bs on that same repetitive gameplay, that’s enough of a improvement by itself.
There’s little to no practical benefit in diversifying on a bad core that’ll only expose the current flaws even more.
