I don’t think I have heard of Ki-102 having engine armor either. Only Japanese plane which might have had that was Ki-93, but I have not found anything specific about it. Might have been just a consideration.
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I’m looking for it, but no luck so far.
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=202156
he mentions engine armor, can’t find good sources on it. But I also can’t read Japanese.
On another note, the backseat armor @Teh0 was talking about is here. The 90 degree plate is 12, the 45 degree plate is 8 mm. Sadly no engine armor is listed here
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You even don’t need it if you want to do good historic accurate changes…
Spoiler
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According to the explanation of the rear gunner’s armor in this diagram, the rear gunner’s canopy is rotatable (回転風防). It is thought to have a similar design to the Yokosuka D4Y. In the game, the field of fire of the Ki-102 Otsu’s rear gunner is unnaturally narrow. The cause of this problem appears to be the rear end of the rear canopy, which is incorrectly configured as a sliding type.
In the D4Y, the rear canopy rotates sideways and retracts into the fuselage to provide a wide field of fire for the turret.
http://jinraikohboh.web.fc2.com/Gframe204.html
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That is fascinating! I didn’t know that.
But let’s see if Gaijin will fix this soon… They still haven’t fixed the rear turret on the Ki-67/Ki-109
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Is there any source what can help to report it for Ki-102?
I am afraid, without report it will not be soon
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There doesn’t seem to be any proper photos of the rear gunner’s position with the window open or anything written about how it works.
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“KI-102 handling instructions” shed some light to the rear gun position.
Note the “revolving canopy”.
“The revolving canopy turns on the longitudinal axis.”
(Diagram #3 about armor is sadly missing.)
The MG mounting with details.
Few more pages about the rear gunner position.
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Awesome! Doing the good work
Would be great if we had proper photos of rear machine gun position. It’s very difficult to tell from these how the canopy rotates, how the machine gun mount moves and how the armor plates are located. It does look like that rounded plate #7 was attached on top of the machine gun. It is only 1.9kg after all. Plate #6 is still very odd.
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Otherwise, it doesn’t make much sense. There’s no alignment of the frames where a continuous track allows the third section to slide into the second, nor is there a coherent hinge to enable the pivot necessary for opening, as is typical in such assemblies.
From Ki-48
The revolving canopy would also explain why armor plate 8# is concave on its upper part and not simply rectangular, precisely to allow passage of the canopy.
However, the gun would still be almost completely enclosed within the fixed canopy, which is equally narrow and seemingly mounted to a simple post mount, restricting the gun’s swiveling to the dimensions of the cockpit. In contrast to the D4Y, where not only is the entire canopy released over the gun to avoid collisions, but the gun is also mounted on a movable carriage that repositions along a transversal track, allowing the gunner to reach extreme angles without contortion.
Although, given that we know the third canopy is not over the opening and the seat is adjustable in height, it is likely that it can be raised slightly more than 20º. From side to side, I don’t think so.
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The plate 6# resembles one of the waist gunner’s armor plates on the PBY. It’s likely to cover only the left side of the gun. If we observe the illustrations, the position of the gun post appears to be off-center, to the right side, due to the space taken up by the ammunition box. Thus, this plate is effectively in the centerline, where the gunner’s head should also be. However, this arrangement would result in the arc of fire not being symmetrical; one side should cover more than the other
The description of the plate 7# states that it belongs to the “rotating windshield” (revolving canopy). Its curved shape corresponds more closely with the curvature of the canopy rather than with a typical gun shield shape. The lower semicircle is to allow passage of the gun. When the canopy opens, the plate flips upside down.
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Some months ago, @tester188 showed the account of a Ki-148 operator who said that the Ki-102 Otsu had a compartment built in the nose for the Ki-148 radio-control operator to use (at the time of July 1945).
Because of that it would seem that we would need a different Ki-102 Otsu variant in the game in order for it to have the Ki-148 missile.
However, there is a photo series of a Ki-102 Otsu being loaded with a Ki-148 missile. In these photos, it seems that there is no nose compartment, because there is no glass.
So, perhaps in earlier tests, the Ki-102 Otsu used the Ki-148 without any significant airframe modifications. In this case, it would be possible to add it to the plane in the game.
I guess the pilot had to guide the missile while flying, or maybe the person in the rear seat could somehow observe it.
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It’s quite possible for these early tests, they were merely trying to test the airframe/missile, without serious consideration as to effectiveness.
That being said, such concerns are unnecessary in War Thunder, so it should definitely receive it.
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Kawasaki Ki-102A (Kō) - Suggestions / Aircraft - War Thunder — official forum
Post made by @Grzegames
Hopefully, they’ll look at the Otsu again
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I was trying to look for the AP round again and here is what I gathered:
-AP round for the gun is mentioned in at least two primary souce and two secondary sources. A Russian source even has photo of this AP round, although it’s most likely the tank gun Type 92 APHE.
-One of those two primary sources apparently claims that an AP round was manufactured specifically for for Ho-401. However a translated production list only mentions shell and training round.
-Training round, ball or substitute round is mentioned. I’m not sure if they mean the same round. If they are, then the round is only meant to make a small puff, so the gunner can better see where it hit.
-HE round mentioned everywhere.
-In addition to HE round, one source mentions “Ho-401 Kou”. I think this might be the HE round which we already have in game. American source calls it just HO-401 High Explosive Projectile as no other name is given. That would mean the other HE round is tank gun Type 90 HE.
-Many sources claim the cartridge was direct copy of the tank gun round. There is no mention if Ho-401 could or couldn’t fire the tank gun rounds. Only possible issue seems to be the the shorter lengh of Ho-401 HE as they chopped it a centimetre or two to reduce weight.
-Type 3 HEAT round isn’t mentioned in any of these documents. Did it take that long for Allies to capture anything about it?
Any bets how many more years until Ki-102 gets bombs? Just 3 more days and it’s been in game for 11 YEARS without bombs.
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The Ho-401 HE shell is shorter. You can see how the shell can now hold more propellant compared to the round for the Type 90 cannon.
So lighter projectile + more propellant = higher muzzle velocity.
I still think this would be the ideal anti-bomber shell and cannon that Japan had, despite apparantly designed for attacking ground targets 🤔
I don’t think that AP would be useful for anything other than maybe attacking sea targets.
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Having the AP shell would be a big plus, but the Ki-102 not having bombs is a major issue…
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Next year for sure!
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