The Kh-38MT may not actually exist

[MrBombastic8]

no

[PercussionCap]

@ron_2303

with the modular part being the seeker

They are specifically advertising modular warheads right now.

[ron_2303]

there you go

[ItsGaryy]

lol

“with the modular part being the seeker”

[Flame2512]

@sudo_su1

But with all weapons and especially with more modern ones it pretty much boils down to taking the manufacturer/country’s word …

Unless you want Gaijin to order one of each weapon and test them in-house …

I’m not arguing that the stats are wrong or should not be used.

ron_2303 keeps arguing that the the fact that the brochure has stats for the seeker proves that the seeker existed. I’m just pointing out that It is entirely normal for companies to advertise planned or predicted stats for hardware that does not exist. So it is completely wrong to claim that the existence of stats prove the existence of the seeker.

[_Fantom2451]

They in fact do, purpose of inert missile is to cause no damage

[DevilO6]

Me, when “no damage” inert missile turns my leg into a pancake after succumbing to gravity and impacting it.

[Zannafrancy12]

you sure its kh69? i think its kh101

[sudo_su1]

@PercussionCap

That’s taking a lot of assumptions that we can’t prove.

You are not looking at the screenshot

For them INS means INS + GNSS
So sometimes they say “Inertial + satellite” and sometimes they omit mentioning the satellite.

Spoiler

As for the ROE website, just like @ron_2303 said it doesn’t make sense for them to maintain separate production for the “base module” with and without GNSS modules …

The cost of maintaining separate production and the cost on the entire logistics system (you have to manage and store and transport two variants instead of one) and training (of technicians) far exceeded the tens to hundreds of dollars that you save on components by omitting the GNSS module and antennas on the second variant …

Spoiler

It’s obvious that they just mean it can function in two modes: with or without GNSS
The latter being for GNSS-denied/spoofed environment

You have the same thing with Brimstone, which can operate in different modes (though in this case, considering the cost of SAL and mmW seekers it might have actually made some economical sense to make single mode seekers as well)

Spoiler

[ron_2303]

@Flame2512

keeps arguing that the the fact that the brochure has stats for the seeker proves that the seeker existed.

it is more that the newer one has them and the older one hasnt with them being not that impressive
i have to take his word for it tho because i dont have such a deep understanding of IR seekers/ cameras

@tripod2008

It’s nice to see some hard data, but it makes things almost certain that the Seeker is improperly implemented, based on these numbers.

The “Self Homing Head Sensitivity” assmed to be noise equivalent temperature difference (NE∆T) of 270 Milli-Kelvin (mK) is ridiculously high for a “third generation” system, let alone requiring a 4 kelvin difference to provide sufficient contrast for a track to be maintained, needing “16 units” of contrast Is not great, especially for a brochure means that they’re not using a Histogram or other contrast stretching techniques to improve performance the same way the IIR/ CCD Maverick or many other Electro-Optical systems do.

claims that NE∆T values of 25~35 mK can be expected of an Cooled InSb Focal plane Array (AMBER Radiance I)

“Our cameras, having a noise equivalent temperature difference (NE∆T) of only 25 mK, can detect extremely small variations in source irradiance. NE∆T indicates the required temperature difference of a particular pixel with respect to the background to obtain a signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) of unity”

In short surfaces that are within a a quarter of a degree of one another have the same return(and depending on what is actually displayed it may be far worse), which is a magnitude worse than commercial gear from the late 90’s.

Sure with limits as above you will assuredly get passable contrast within a scene, but in no way shape or form will you retain details, and everything will be blown out and blobby.

[ItsGaryy]

You’re assuming what they mean. We have 0 information on how the production occurs, how the modules are assembled.

[ron_2303]

he isnt, they literally say it in the video
it is not in the subtitle because they didnt say it

[Rennie1018129]

Looks more like a metallic baguette to me (im joking)

[sudo_su1]

@ItsGaryy

lol

“with the modular part being the seeker”

Warhead module is separate from the “base module” which contains the INS + GNSS + other equipment

Spoiler

For warhead it makes sense to have two or more variants for various target types

But it doesn’t make sense to have two base module variants with and without GNSS as it basically achieves nothing other than costing more money and making your logistics more difficult

So you make one variant and enable or disable the GNSS depending on the target environment …

[ron_2303]

the french are maybe interested in that

it is not like they never had a metal baguette

[_Fantom2451]

You are still ignoring short and long wing variants

You just doing mental gymnastics triyng to make what you make up to be truth. While in fact everything is simple and there is no manafacturer lying, saying no GNSS for one missile variant and then that there is for newer one.

[sudo_su1]

@_Fantom2451_

They in fact do, purpose of inert missile is to cause no damage

Rocket motor exploding or catching fire in an exhibition can cause plenty of damage …

[sudo_su1]

@_Fantom2451_

You just doing mental gymnastics triyng to make what you make up to be truth. While in fact everything is simple and there is no manafacturer lying, saying no GNSS for one missile variant and then that there is for newer one.

Explain this

[_Fantom2451]

It’s newer variant, stop being so dumb, I already showed GNSS for old one being a part of Kh-38Mk seeker but you are keeping to be on your line of fantasy. You don’t even know if newer variant is in mass production, we seen only old one in use and new only as mockups.

[sudo_su1]

@_Fantom2451_

It’s newer variant, stop being so dumb

So why does it say “INS”
Instead of “INS + GNSS” or “INS + Satellite”?

Note that the upper text is part of the video

While the lower text is the subtitle for the voice over

The answer is simple, they often don’t mention the GNSS because it’s a very trivial thing …
It costs little and it takes little effort to put a GNSS module into modern weapons …

@_Fantom2451_

I already showed GNSS for old one being a part of Kh-38Mk seeker but you are keeping to be on your line of fantasy

And I told you that your picture:

@_Fantom2451_

Spoiler

Says “Active satellite navigation” and “active homing device” for the MKE variant
(When the “normal” GNSS guidance is not “active” nor “homing”)

Which means either the MKE variant has additional 'active" satellite communication / GNSS modules in the seeker section or the brochure has very (very) poor wording and representation which means it’s basically useless and doesn’t prove anything …