F-15A, F-4F KWK, F-16A, F-16ADF, F/A-18A, Kurnass 2000, F-16AJ, F-15J, MiG-29G these planes have different ARB br, different A2G weaponary (F-16ADF doesn’t have even simple bomb) and different A2A weaponary but they share same GRB br.
and none of those are ground attackers.
and you’ve just kinda proved my point.
Unless you are saying the F-15A and A-10C have 100% identical A2A performance.
The A-10Cs BR is clearly set by its A2G performance (and that is supported by the fact its 11.7 in ARB and 12.0 in GRB)
Unless you are saying the Tornado Gr1 should be a lower BR than the Su-39 because the Su-39 has R-73s and the Tornado Gr1 only has Aim-9L?
The airframes are near identical (slow subsonic, with decent defensive kit and IRCCM IR missiels for self defence)
The difference is in A2G performance, A-10C is running 6x AGM-65 with no Tpod and the Su-39 is running 16x Vikhrs. If the argument exists for the Tornado Gr4 or Typhoon to be at the BRs they are at because of their “Sustained A2G CAS” and that buffing their A2G with something like SAL-Brimstone 2s would be unreasonable, then I question why the Su-39 isnt at 12.0 alongside the A-10C
1 Like
You comparing subsonic and supersonic platforms have atleast some decency
Then Harrier T-10 which is 11.7 in GRB should be 11.0 in GRB because the Su-39 has R-73 at 11.3.
Happy?
Heck with 4x AGM-65G vs 16x Vikhrs, it should also be considered the weaker in terms of A2G as well
Or tonrado Gr4 should be 11.7 because the F-15A is 12.0 with 4x Aim-9M and 4x Aim-7M? Heck the Tornado F3 Late is 12.0 with 4x Aim-9M and 4x Aim-120B
1 Like
No now you taking only A2A systems it doesn’t make things correct you should align it with all characteristics it has not just take one from context
You did. You justified the A-10C being 12.0 because of its A2A systems ONLY.
Su-39 = A-10C in pretty much every single respect. These aircraft are as close as you can get interms of aircraft performance and role.
Su-39 has 16x AGMs the A-10C only has 6. Therefore the Su-39 should be a higher BR based upon the arguments I’ve seen for justifying the Typhoon with 18x short range SAL missiles being the same BR as the Su-30 and Rafale with 6x FnF AGMs and equal if not superior A2A performance
2 Likes
I said you skipping the A2A sustems.
and what difference is there?
Su-39 has IRCCM missiles, IRCM, good CM count and Good RWR
A-10C has IRCCM missiles, MAWS, Good CM count and Good RWR.
A-10C is vastly weaker than any and all other aircraft at 12.0 in terms of A2A performance and on the ground of “it should be higher because of its A2A performance” then actually it should be lower. No way the A-10C is the equal of 13.0 aircraft.
1 Like
4 IRCCM smokeless missiles with HMD can be big leverage in GRB and 4 IR Fire-and-Forget missiles on subsonic platform with targeting pod
1 Like
The smokeless motor is a small advantage and again, you are the one comparing ONLY “A2A” performance here and again, are you saying that A-10C is equal to the Tornado F3 Late because they both have 4x Aim-9M?
Aim-9M are useless with HMD. On the Tornado Gr4 and even the Typhoon I rarely fire at anything other than a direct shot. They are not R-73 or Magic II which are potent in off-boresight.
Again. Typhoon with 18x non-FnF is considered = to 6x FnF. So why isnt 16x Non-FnF considered = to 4x FnF?
Just seems hypocritical.
And using the same argument you have.
The Su-39 has 2x R-73 which are some of the best short range IRCCM missiles in game. Has IRCM that makes it immune to rear-aspect IR Missiles, has access to a very capable radar pod that just got a buff in terms of A2G performance and is very good in A2A. The vikhrs have prox fuse and can be used for A2A combat rather well.
Meanwhile the Harrier T-10 has 4x non-IRCCM missiles, less CMs (with the current BOL nerfs) and only rear-aspect MAWS. Its A2G performance is 4x FnF AGMs with a Gen 1 pod, this is much weaker than the Su-39s payload. And if the HArrier T-10 wants to runs 2x GBUs as well, it only has 2x Aim-9Ls for self defence. Meanwhile Su-39 gets 2x R-60M + 2x R-73 + 16x Vikhrs + 2x Kh-25+ 2x KH-29? (depending on hardpoint conflicts)
In terms of both A2A and A2G performance the Su-39 is superior to the Harrier T-10 and yet is a lower BR
3 Likes
Now you skipping flight performance.
Not all of them AIM-9L still can hit it.
No you keep skipping some stuff.
So the A-10C has a superior or equal flight performance to the Tornado F3 Late?
No?
Not a single IR missile can be used against the IRCM unless at extremely close range and you get lucky. Heck not even Aim-9M works against IRCM. (i know i’ve tried)
Such as?
You have yet to justify why the Su-39 is 11.3 and the Harrier T-10 is 11.7 and the A-10C is 12.0 given the fact that the Su-39 has 16x AGMs
especially when the argument for the Typhoon being 13.0 AND being denied Brimstone 2 is because it can provide sustained CAS and would be too OP despite not having FnF. It is also inferior to the Rafale at the moment, especially in a CQB environmnet
1 Like
Except for the fact that it isn’t… the Mavericks absolutely suck on the A-10 due to it’s low initial speed. Even the glide bombs suck because of how slow they travel. The B+ and the F111-F are better because they can use mavericks to some effect.
So no, the only plus you have is the 4 9ms, hmd, and a maw. If you want to take out planes, then use the F-15A or B+. Both are better because aim9ms paired with a high initial speed makes them deadly.
It should be 11.3 or whatever BR the Su39 is. Hell, even Hunter thought the BRs were accidentally swapped when it was introduced in the live server (GRB: 12.0 | ARB: 11.3)
3 Likes
In the context when we are comparing Su-25T and A-10C 4 9Ms and HMD can give leverage.
20 AGMs in total.
You can take test flight with 16 vikhrs and see how “convenient” they are to use brimestone maybe lack speed and prox fuse but definitely wins in damage and launch angle.
Also skipping that Su-25T doesn’t have IR targeting pod
20 vs 4 or 6?
Yep, definetly seems balanced
And? I’ve had targets tank 3x Brimstones before. They are a fraction of the damage of a Kh-38MT.
Nor does the A-10C if its runs 6x AGM-65.
It does but with what I mentioned, does that warrant a +.7 BR raise?
Vikhr are worse in question of damage.
Well if A-10C will be moved to 11.3 in GRB it will leave a question what to do with Su-25T(39)
And?
Brimstone is worse than a Kh-38MT by a LOT and yet considered equal for some reason.
And I get one shotted by Vikhrs all the time.
Leave it at 11.3 or move it up.
A-10C is inferior to Su-39 in terms of CAS.
Why must Soviets be stronger?
1 Like
They are not consideret equal Typhoon is superior platform in comparison to Su-30SM you keep taking one aspect and ignore others
4 Likes
Then Rafale. Rafale is vastly superior to the Typhoon in A2A and has 6x AASM. Which are just slightly inferior to the Kh-38MT
Though Su-30 holds many advantages over the Typhoon at the moment, like superior AAMs and Radar.
But Typhoon should still get FnF AGMs or SAL-Brimstones 2s if Su-30 is allowed to keep a fake weapon