The Indonesian B-26B should be moved to 5.0

[SnowPeaks_MLU]

@Circleati

you can shoot ground targets with the 57mm (or bombers if you want ig)

You can also do the same thing with the extra 4 M2.

@Circleati

I’ve countered everything youve said with my own points

That is what I am doing.

[Circleati]

@markimash

BR is not decided from k/d or winrate. Last i heard, it is more to do with the economic side of things.

the term gaijin uses mostly is “vehicle efficiency” the easiest way for us to understand a number form of that is basically SL/game though yes

[Circleati]

@SnowPeaks MLU

That is what I am doing.

okay then please address this one that ive made twice now

@Circleati

I mean like even, the american A26B isnt 5.0/5.3 because its a good fighter, without the bombs its basically a P61, which need I remind you are 3.7/4.0

@Circleati

fundamentally something like the A-26B or this B-26B just arent fighters, like the P-61 and even the P-38s are lower BRs, faster, with stronger armaments, theres no real contest

[Circleati]

@SnowPeaks MLU

You can also do the same thing with the extra 4 M2.

also ummm not really that well not compared to a 57mm

[markimash]

@Circleati

it does get you points/score which is more important for how the game works

After the changes made winning and losing basically give you the same rewards, the only reason winning matters is for certain tasks and i guess a little happy feeling.

[markimash]

@SnowPeaks MLU

But you know, planes with the same fuselage always have the same BR.

Uh, no they dont. As mentioned above, b29 and tu4 are a 1:1 copy in terms of the fuselage yet have different brs based on their bomb loads and defensive armament.

[Circleati]

to some extent yes but overall, winning does still give more points, its just that like 75% of points come from how long youre alive now

[markimash]

Yeah, there is still a small bonus but it isnt nearly as much as before.

Wasnt it close to like twice the sl/rb if you won or something?

[SnowPeaks_MLU]

Giving the evidence to prove it, or it is lack of persuasiveness. I dont think 4 M2 is worse than 1 57mm cannon in plane. The last is hard to aim and has less ammunition

[Circleati]

the main thing I think is that RP got untethered from winning and attached to time played instead

though with the skill bonus stuff now id way we’re beyond what we used to get

it was a good change imo even without the skill bonus

[Circleati]

umm you realise the tank ground units give decent reward for killing right? I dont think you can kill those with 2 50 cals like you can attack howitzers fine ig but the T18B 57 still has 2x20mm and 1 13.2mm to do that as well

[markimash]

@SnowPeaks MLU

I dont think 4 M2 is worse than 1 57mm cannon in plane. The last is hard to aim and has less ammunition

Depends. For soft targets, the machine guns are better. For hard targets, the 57mm will actually be able to take them out.

@Circleati

the main thing I think is that RP got untethered from winning and attached to time played instead

though with the skill bonus stuff now id way we’re beyond what we used to get

it was a good change imo even without the skill bonus

Yeah, it is pretty nice. Though the one downside is that it give people less of a reason to work together and/or play the objective.

[Real_K_Soze]

@SnowPeaks MLU

The Indonesian B-26B actually is B-26B Invader produced by Douglas, which was named A-26B. So, it should has the same BR as US A-26B. But it wrongly has the same BR as B-26B Marauder produced by Martin in 4.3. To make the game more equal, it is necessary for the same planes to have the same BR. Therefore, the Indonesian B-26Bshould lay in 5.0 in AR.

I see your point. But as @Circleati said payload is an important factor for the BR determination as for non-fighter aircraft the potential damage plays a role too.

In other words:

• The max payload of 4 x 500 lbs is nothing to write home about - especially at BR 4.3.
• This BR is prone to get dragged into 5.0 & 5.3 battles in which the standard payload of 2 x 1,000 lbs of average US plane won’t kill a base - simply because there is a massive increase of base HP from 4.7 to 5.0.
• So even at BR 4.7 down to BR 3.3 matches you will get a single base as maximum outcome of a bomb run.

Examples for base hp increase 4.7 to 5.0:

1. You see the effects of the base hp increase from 4.7 to 5.0 increase in every match - the same bomb load allowing you 2 basekills in a 4.7 plane (like 2 x 600 kg M50s B18B - or 2 sea mines in a FR-1) damages each base just to about 65%.

2. Same as my beloved B7A2s - their lousy payload of 10x 60 kg is thanks to the “small bomb bonus” superior to the single 800 kg bomb as 8 x 60 kg kills every base below 5.0. But at BR 5.0 matches (the overwhelming majority of my battles) all 10 60 kg bombs kills just ~75% of the base hp on 4 bases maps.

@SnowPeaks MLU

B-26B Invader has faster maximum speed than other similar planes in 4.3

In order to use this speed in a PvP role you have to keep the A/B 26 between 4.5 and 5 km at very high speed and try to farm fighter rookies either with offensive or mainly defensive weapons.

From 2017 -2020 you saw a few very experienced players doing this quite successfully. But from my pov the wt meta shift and other fancy changes makes this option rather unlikely - the average player skill dropped significantly.

As a final remark:

From my pov the JP tree lacks a strike aircraft to fulfill daily tasks requiring Rank III aircraft - so this addition looks reasonable, same as the BR.

[Circleati]

@markimash

Though the one downside is that it give people less of a reason to work together and/or play the objective.

idk i still think the idea of winning helps with that, it just means we get less sad if the rest of our team does abandon us

though I dont think warthunder has really ever had great incentive for teamwork and no more or less now than it used to

[Circleati]

also youre still ignoring my point that you promised you would respond to and if you dont ill get really sad :(

@Circleati

@Circleati

I mean like even, the american A26B isnt 5.0/5.3 because its a good fighter, without the bombs its basically a P61, which need I remind you are 3.7/4.0

@Circleati

fundamentally something like the A-26B or this B-26B just arent fighters, like the P-61 and even the P-38s are lower BRs, faster, with stronger armaments, theres no real contest

[Circleati]

@Real K Soze@live

In order to use this speed in a PvP role you have to keep the A/B 26 between 4.5 and 5 km at very high speed and try to farm fighter rookies either with offensive or mainly defensive weapons.

yeah you just take advantage of airspawn to get high and have energy while the fighters dont so you get to be mean to them, but with quite a few maps now giving airspawn and pretty bad powercreep around the 5.0-6.0 area (and as you mentioned lower skill at these BRs, as well as a change in culture so people dont all climb to 5km before engagement these days) its a lot harder for stuff like the A26 to succeed in this, though it may change with the new bomber DMs

@Real K Soze@live

The max payload of 4 x 500 lbs is nothing to write home about - especially at BR 4.3.

at 4.3 its kinda just bad really (for a twin engine at least), its like a 3.0 bomb load

[Real_K_Soze]

@Circleati

@Real K Soze@live

The max payload of 4 x 500 lbs is nothing to write home about - especially at BR 4.3.

at 4.3 its kinda just bad really (for a twin engine at least), its like a 3.0 bomb load

Can you provide me with some screenshots of payload options? I have no access to the dev server via xbox.

My assessment could change as i looked up the payload options in this thread:

Douglas B-26B "Kalong" - "Invader's Last Hurrah in Indonesia"

poll Hello, I would like to suggest the Douglas B-26B Invader in service with the Indonesian Air Force. [9230798_202103250704530467] The B-26B Invader entered Indonesian Air Force service in 1960, and they were used extensively until retired in 1977. During their last combat tours in East Timor (1975-1977), the B-26B flight were given the radio callsign “Kalong”, meaning fruit bat in Indonesian. Indonesia is the last operator of combat-ready B-26 Invader. Based on the features that they had, …

So with USSR bombs (which have sometimes - depending on variant - higher TNT output than US bombs) or incendiary bombs the picture might change…

Thx in advance!

[Circleati]

@Real K Soze@live

Can you provide me with some screenshots of payload options?

ummm not great

@Real K Soze@live

So with USSR bombs (which have sometimes - depending on variant - higher TNT output than US bombs)

atm the 500lbs are the best option (117kg tnteq vs 94kg tnteq on the ofab250s) but also might end up being changed somehow because they dont actually fit in the bomb bay rn

it also might get some type of different rocket as currently it has these weird racks or something on the wings