What are you talking about? It has amazing armor against APHE and APDS, and great survivability against HEAT.
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He is correct tbh. Somua is better than most 8.0s but I would rather have decompression.
Not really. Heavy tanks shouldnt be like this. They should have more armor than mediums, but not an overwhelming amount more, in exchange for worse mobility. There are ofc outliers like the Maus, but just because its a heavy tank doesn’t mean you should be bouncing everything. Heavies should play mostly like a medium, but being slightly more forgiving in case you get into a sticky situation.
If anything IS-3 just deserves a slight reload buff and it would be completely fine.
Eh. Id say its one trick pony, relying on people shooting the UFP.
Im not in game rn but its gun handling isnt anything ordinary for 7.7 so its not like it always gets to shoot first, and outside of that UFP it is no different to AMX-50/100.
The autoloader while powerful comes with its own kind of gameplay problems.
Whatever floats your boat broski.
Crux of the issue is youre complaining about single armored plate on a tank that can be destroyed with autocannon from side and if i recall correctly, has same gun handling as its contemporaries so its not like it will always be first to fire - and then its not really different to countering any other tank.
Also vickers mk 1 at 8.0 with full stab, APDS and 5 sec aced reload exists.
Not to be rude but pretty much everything you said was false. It has significantly better turret than AMX-50, the upper turret having more armor than T-54. The rest is stronger as well and can have some nutty volumetric moments. The GH is also superb at the BR, being 40 deg/s iirc
Wiki says 24°/s horizontal 5°/s vertical aced.
Id certainly notice MBT levels of gun handling.
Yet it has massive weakspot always present if the somua is looking your direction.
Turret? Or armor overall? If later, I hard disagree. Outside of frontal arc its paper. 40mm side hull 60mm side turret. Cant angle this thing at all.
My first game ever with somua i died to single BTR-80 shot to the back of the turret.
Spoiler
I recall this crytsal clear because he drove through my entire team without them as much as machinegunning him, shot me, and died. Nearly had to buy new desk.
Huh, my bad then. Still quite good for the br.
Frontal arc. Sides and rear are wet toilet paper for sure.
But in terms of frontal armor Somua is quite nutty, it’s deceptively thick in areas you wouldn’t expect. Plus oscillating turret is volumetric hell, especially for APDS.
Due to high crew count and crew spread HEAT and APDS struggle heavily to take it out in one hit. Commander override is also huge.
It can get face smacked by high pen APHE, but you can’t expect to be fully invulnerable with the firepower and mobility you get on it.
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Not denying that.
Oh dont get me wrong, i dont think somua is bad or anything, on the contrary.
I just dont agree with the armor assesment. I never bounced a properly aimed shot in it.
I play it like slightly heavier AMX-50/100.
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Really sounds like player error if you are complaining about autocannons to the rear turret. Nearly ANY tank in this entire game dies to autocannons to the rear turret and nearly any tank dies to autocannons to the side. You aren’t a russian heavy with no depression, no speed, no turret rotation, and no reload. You have nearly no drawbacks for the huge armor upgrade you get.
The tiny area under the gun is massive? interesting. Because the upper turret is as good or better than any other medium at the br. And the whole idea that someone needs to shoot at a small weak point vs a tank with 4s reload and 270 pen is the issue. They miss or bounce once, they are dead no matter if you fail to pen too.
Lets not take the argument further down this road.
Lot of heavy tanks, ie. the thing were comparing Somuas armor to since it is heavy tank, cant be side penned by BTR-80.
No sustained damage if played outside of cap, side and rear armor, no high pen shell if it finds itself in uptier.
Its a heavy.
Now remove the 4s reload from the equation aaaaannnnnd you get every warthunder tank to tank interaction ever.
You have to shoot tank into weakspot if its armor profile does not allow for lolpen.
Insane concept. /s
Somua is strong due to its autoloader, not its armor.
I have similiar KD on somua and AMX-50/100.
If somua was as significantly better than AMX-50/100 as you portray it to be, my performance would logically reflect that.
I played TOA-100 when I was pretty bad but I don’t think I can achieve the 6 kd I have on Somua in it. Even though relying on armor is a crutch and shouldn’t be done, it’s just super nice to have compared to TOA 100.
Absolutely.
You are far from usual player on this forum magik
IS-3, along with IS-4/IS-6 are some of the easiest heavies to pop with autocannons. My favourite food in Flakpanzer. IS-2 is more frustrating to deal with via autocannon in comparison. Something about the sides of that silly drivers hatch on IS-3/4/6 that just loves to pop the whole vehicle. Saying that, Somua pops pretty easy via autocannons when you go for the cupola. (APHE) Autocannons are just a problem in general.
I think Somua is fine at 7.7. Biggest problem for Germany and other nations facing France at 7.7 is not the French vehicles, it’s the inexperienced players on your own team that will frustrate you to no end.
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Is-3 facing a somua is the smallest uptier you can get. 7.3 vs 7.7. There is way scarier stuff you can face in the IS-3
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I must apologize because I dont have anything to actually contribute to this discussion. The title just happened to remind me of this video.
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17hp/t vs M48’s 18hp/t and 15hp/t T54. Call it what you want, its the same maneuverability as med. Much the same as a Chieftan mk3 is a medium despite being the slowest vehicle at its br with up to 400mm effective armor on one side of its turret.
If you are getting 1 shot off before dying, your position is the problem, not the tank.
You are trying ot argue that the tank has no armor because it has a weak point. When nearly every armored tanks a weak point. Bad argument.
Your preformance is on you. Not on the tank. Trying to argue they are the same is just forced ignorance.
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You’re arguing against points I didn’t actually make. Almost like certain forum user infamous for gaslighting.
I never said somua has “no armor” because it has a weakspot. My point was the exact opposite, you singled out the one actually armored plate it has and are treating that as if the entire tank is heavily armored. somua has armor in some places, but it also has critical weakspot that will always be exposed if somua wants to engage you, as well as paper tissue armor anywhere that isnt front.
all that makes it perfectly manageable to kill if you know where to shoot.
Looking at only its strongest armor is just as misleading as looking only at its weakpoints.
Cut that crap.
I don’t struggle surviving in somua, nor do I struggle killing somuas when I play other nations like UK. I play around its strengths and weaknesses. I know when to not engage 4 sec autoloader.
The “if you’re getting one shot off before dying” argument doesn’t really apply to me because that’s not the issue im describing.
Also i might not be magik but im certainly better player than you, so you might want to try some other argument than skill issue.
Im not claiming somua and AMX-50/100 are identical vehicles.
Im saying is that I play them in essentially the same way and achieve almost identical results in them, that being ~3.0 KD
If somua, thanks to its armor, was the massive upgrade youre making it out to be, I would expect noticeably better performance in it than in the AMX-50/100.
That simply isn’t reflected in my own experience or statistics.
Argument isn’t about whether the Somua is good. It is.
Argument is about exaggerating its strengths while downplaying its weaknesses.
I singled out no such plate. I LITERALLY posted a screenshot of the armor profile vs one of the better 7.3/7.7 tanks and your UFP, upper turret, AND lower turret are all going to stop shots. Your weak point is ONLY your under barrel plate, cupola, and lfp. First 2 are small, 3rd is unreliable ohk. 95%+ if your profile isn’t pennable by APHE at even medium distances, and most of your competition is still using APHE.
Again, this is all IF YOU KNOW ITS A SOMUA. its nearly identical to the other 2 french meds. Its like if one M48 was heavily armored and you had to know at a snap moment if you could aim for hull for a ohk or had to shoot a small weak point.
Saying it isn’t durable because it has a weak point is literally the same as saying a T95 isn’t durable because it has a cupola. That is your entire argument. Weak points don’t make tanks weak. Being able to resist snap shots, distance shots, autocannons, and occasionally bounce aimed shots is what armored means in WT. Nearly nothing is invulnerable frontally and if it is, it pays for it.
You literally described only getting 1 shot off in most encounters.
You might want to get your argument straight.
Somua outperforms both AMX 50-100 and lorraine by ~40% in KDR and KPG via statshark. Its a premium tank, but also has nearly 30% more games played than both TT vehicles. No one cares about your stats, objectively it is both better and played more for good reason.
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You’re still arguing against points I never made.
I never said somua isn’t durable. I never said weak points automatically make a tank weak. I never said i only get one shot off before dying.
This is second and last time im telling you this before i straight up block you, im not wasting my time and energy on mentally deficient people.
I could do the same with IS-4 if i was at my PC.
Even then youre still overlooking the fact that somua armor is concentrated almost entirely in the frontal arc. If armor only works from one direction, it inherently limits how aggressively you can use a vehicle. A heavy tank that’s resistant from the front but vulnerable to even low penning autocannons from the sides and rear is not equivalent to heavy tank like IS-4 with all-around protection.
That’s not a problem unique to somua. Plenty of tanks around 7.3-7.7 have frontal areas that resist APHE at range (again, IS-4 probably), fact that APHE struggles against a specific section of frontal armor doesn’t automatically make a vehicle exceptionally armored for its BR.
I did not say “I get one shot off before I die.” I dare you to quote where i said such thing.
Hint: you wont be able to.
I said that if you remove somua 4-second reload from the equation, the engagement becomes much more similar any other interaction between two tanks, one player has to identify and hit a weakspot because his shell cannot punch through the strongest armor plate. Im merely pointing out you are once again making this issue unique to the somua when this is just how game works mechanically.
Sure, global stats can be useful, but they are not absolute without context. Many good vehicles are underperforming according to global stats - F/A-18C early sits at 0.76 KD average which is just laughable.
somua having better global statistics than the AMX-50/100 doesn’t automatically prove it is superior, nor does it invalidate discussion about why those statistics look the way they do.
My argument has never been “somua bad”, im arguing that both you and OP are overstating somuas armor by focusing almost exclusively on engaging it frontally, and then treating me disagreeing with that as if i said somua has no armor at all.
All and all do what you want, tommorow we will both wake up and somua will still be 7.7 no matter how much you continue gaslighting me about things i never said.