it does need 9Ls. Otherwise I agree as far as the current compression is concerned
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well fakours are funny. those who notch will be able to dodge whatever thrown at them anyway.
unlike r 77 they can actually reach over 10km
How about everyone gets better IR, all the tomcats. F14A gets 9L, F14IRIAF gets R73 and F14B gets 9M, all moves up in next decompression, in relative placement, moves to 13.0, and 13.3.
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wth are you talking about, no such thing as multipath resistant missile
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he is referring to how the aim54 will kill through splash a % of the time even when multipathed
“Multipath resistant” is the wrong way to describe it. There’s nothing about the phoenixe’s seeker that makes it resistant to multipathing. There are two ways that the phoenix can kill a multipathing target.
1: If the target is flying too low, then the phoenixe’s large warhead might still splash it. This is a bit unrealistic since the explosion shouldn’t be a sphere like that. It’s the same issue as the APHE detonations inside tanks being the wrong shape.
2: phoenixes are likely to be launched from very high altitudes. Multipathing vs attacks coming from above is less likely to protect you. Multipathing is basically what happens when two radar returns are flying too close to each other. You can observe the same effect take place vs the AI bombers in the arcade air assault mode. The bombers are in such tight formation that the radar starts merging returns together and targeting the empty space between the bombers. With multipathing you’re “flying in formation” with your reflection off of the ground. So the missile tries to attack the center of mass point between you and your reflection. From attacks launched around near the same altitude, that deviation is likely to cause the missile to miss completely. But if the attack is coming from high above, then the missile’s pursuit of your center of mass point is likely to still take the missile close enough to you to trigger the proximity fuse.
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When fired from top down if you dont notch AND change alt a pheonix or r27 has plenty of explosives and radius to still kill you almost every time.
Reason why i still carry 2-4 r27er even in su30, having someone beneath you is extremely scary, and aim120 and r77/1 usually can just be multipathed and ignored but these 2 cant.
Though some missiles were much better at dealing with MP than others, for example, Skyflash was reported to have a min alt of 33m and that was stated to be because of the prox fuse and not because of MP. But even taken with that figure for MP, that would still nearly halve the current 60m we have on everything.
I’ve seen someone say before AMRAAM was more like 40m.
So “multipath resistant” is definetly the wrong phrase, if we used IRL data rather than a generic baseline, most if not all missiles would see MP reduced far further.
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If you dont notch, any ARH/SARH missile will kill when shooting down with enough of an angle, especially when supported.
Its quite funny destroying MP huggers in SB in aircraft like the Tornado F3 and Typhoon.
13.3 is too much with the Aim-54 still being horrendous.
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F14 is one of those planes due to compression that either clubs or gets clubbed, it had like 2 years of clubbing.
- Not true. It was strong for like ~6 months (Danger Zone Update). 9 if you include when the IRIAF event was going on.
- What does that have to do with what I said??
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Perhaps, though if they ever fix BOL, and did give the F-14B Aim-9Ms. I dont think it would suffer too much whilst waiting for dual-plane to be modeled for the Aim-54 and other missiles
It is true, and mentioning that it doesnt perform well at 13.3 i think my response has plenty to do with that.
Not just Dual-Plane. It needs much more.
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No, hes right, if it gets a downtier (12.0-13.0 for the IRIAF or F-14B or 11.7-12.7 for the F-14A) it holds a meaningful advantage against anything below it and should do quite well.
But when they are forced into the uptiers, they are at a disadvantage / lack any meaningful advantage
Also, F-14s came 2 years before ARH was added and controlled the high alt completely. MP was originally added to mitigate Aim-54s though Id argue the low alt hugging meta didnt set into stone until the R-27ER
Danger Zone was June 2022. Other ARH weapons werent added until June 2024
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So like every other plane in the game? It’s a plane centered around a BR where there’s a unique shift in weaponry. It’s a bridge from fox 1 to fox 3. Of course it’s going to be strong in a downtier. Everything is.
The Phoenix is ARH. I think you mean modern ARHs like the AMRAAM. Also, sure, it dominated high altitude. That’s because it’s a specialized interceptor with specialized missiles for intercepting in those conditions. The ER came next update. That cut off any advantage the F-14s had anyway.
R-27ER countered it just fine. Remember, the Phoenix only started getting minor buffs AFTER the Modern ARHs were added.
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Yes and no.
ARH forces aircraft into a higher BR than what they perhaps should be. For example the FA2 would barely be 12.0 if it only had 9Ms and SARH, and even now, perhaps should be 12.7 with AMRAAM, but cant move down. 13.7/14.0s could do with moving higher as any 13.0, even one with ARH, is at a meaningful disadvantage to any 14.0.
So aircraft like the F-14A IRIAF and F-14B, and a few others like FA2 should really be a lower BR but cannot go down, but suffer notably in any form of uptier.
This is compression in a nut shell.
It still came 2 years before true equivalents. Yes R-27ER was and still is a nightmare, but its not ARH.
Congratulations, 2 nations got R-27ER, the other 7 (8 if you also include anyone playing the US but in the F-14) were screwed. Trying to fight F-14s in the Phantom FGR2 with Skyflash DFs sucked.
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IMHO, decompression is the only way to fix F-14 properly without making them become way too OP again.
Too good for getting further buff down if we consider downtier
but Too awful for getting further nerf up if we consider uptier
Maybe some tweak on IR missiles can be juicy, though.
F-14 shouldn’t see F-15C at all, but at the same time, 11br jets like JA37C, Su-24 or Tornado IDS shouldn’t face and forced to fight a2a against F-14.
If, even though we completely ignore Phoenix in the discussion at all for argueing’s sake
F-14A with 6 AIM-7F can easily punish enemy 3rd-gen planes in downtier. right?
I still have nightmares about the fight against F-14A in my F-4J(UK) while half of the team was just wasted by Phoenix, and they came back with AIM-7F to finish me off.
Yeah pretty much, though there is a point of diminishing retursn imo when it comes to decompression, there comes a point where everything is spread so thin that you jsut end up fighting the same half dozen aircraft. So I think F-14s being 1.0 BR different from the F-15C for example, wouldnt be the end of the world
Id place it 12.3. About what the Tornado F3 would be if they ever fix BOL. (F3 trading dogfight performance for more CMs, better radar and better RWR)
Thankfully I was transitioning from some ARB and some ASB to almost exclusively playing ASB about the time of its intro. I barely play(ed) things like the Harrier Gr7 in ARB when it was released. So I missed the worst of it just out of virtue of playing ASB, though I never recall seeing the F-14s actually doing all that much in SB, especially with Aim-54s. I still argue that half the issues around ARB + ARH are entirely down to bad map design. Being both too small and a narrow valley of death
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