3bm60 can go through the ufp which is a round found at 10.0 and is an unrealistic thing and the breech armour is next to nothing so.
M-51’s 400mm pen HEAT can go through the UFP of the MAUS, which is a round found at 6.3.
And I said that they are pretty decent.
UFP is ~540mm, which is enough to stop 3BM46, 120mm DM23, 105mm DM33, 105mm DM63, 120mm M774 & M833, 105mm M900, and 120mm DM33.
That’s quite a big chunk of vehicles, especially at 10.7 / 11.0.
If you do face a tank that has rounds that are better, they’re usually sacrificing something…
M1A1 can be lol-penned and killed in one shot through the loader side (and sometimes gunner side) turret cheek.
T-72B3s get 3BM60 but has no reverse speed, long reload, and no gun depression.
Al-Khalid’s armour is abysmal… and so on.
It’s definitely not great (not as good as the 12.0-12.7 Leopard 2s) but it’s definitely better than something like the Leclerc’s.
Roughly ~370mm thick, which is roughly as good as the Type 90’s and Abrams’.
yeah sure but your missing my point completely the breech armour being as good as the type 90s and abrams is 1 unrealistic and 2 unbalanced the ufp armour being able to stop shells with up to 540mm of pen is also unbalanced and unrealistic as the challenger has better ufp and breech armour irl and what advantage are you getting out of slightly better armour…? none having breech armour as good as a type 90 and ufp armour as good as like a t72 is good until u realise your the heaviest mbt in the game
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while i love my chally OES to death and i consider it one of my best prem experiences removing those useless almost purely cosmetic blocks would be a nice option
if you could remove the armour kit and they gave it some much needed buffs then it would be amazing but it wont happen
Slightly better armour…?
2nd / 3rd best turret in the game is not just ‘slightly better’
And this is all the way at 11.7, not 12.7.
I mean, if they are better IRL then they should model it as such, but how it currently is, the 11.7 Challengers are pretty good.
If they had any better armour I wouldn’t be surprised if they got moved up to 12.0 or even 12.3 (if the breech got a lot better).
The breech is really the only place they can shoot and reliably get something when the Chally is hull-down. And again, this is all the way at 11.7. You can face 2A4s and M1 Abrams (which can’t reliably pen the breech BTW) in a lot of cases.
You can face abysmal reload, gun depression, and reverse speed T-72s and T-90s, which is very fun might I add.
You aren’t at 12.7 where things like the 2A7 achieves the same thing but better.
They actually help quite a lot against BMPT spam from what I saw.
while i agree the 11.7 challenger 2s are good tanks it still doesnt change what i said. the armour is good but its got similar armour to the t72 b3 at a lower br while that doesnt weigh 75 tons. and yeah you face 2a4s and abrams but they are arguably better tanks because they have workable armour and mobility the TES and OES have armour thats only decent in a full downtier but u get a full uptier and your the slowest least armoured to an extent and basically worst tank in the match
why, its pretty decent
Ill vote YES as i believe why not let you remove ERA and make it basically challenger 2 at higher BR…
But why?
i bought it so i will have a lineup straight ahead.
i don’t think it needs buffs if i have some more mobility it would be fine w me i already enjoy it a lot xd
T-72B3’s hull armour is better but the turret is worse. The forehead is a giant weakspot unlike with the Challenger 2’s:
Except the T72B3 has much worse gun depression, reload, and reverse speed.
The armour and acceleration is all the T72B3 has over the Challenger 2, and even then, it doesn’t have that great turret armour or top speed to utilize.
You seriously think the 2A4s and Abrams are better than the Challenger 2?
Again, hull armour is usable all the way to 12.0 in a lot of cases.
Type 90s struggle with it, T-80Us struggle with it, TKX (P) struggles with it.
And those that don’t struggle are either much higher (12.3 / 12.7) or have other flaws (like I stated before).
You can work around those flaws because it’s not a T-Series tank and actually has good gun depression to work with its great turret armour, has great reverse speed to back away if you’re in a bad situation, and a 5s reload (albeit a small first stage) to outreload and kill multiple targets quickly.
The Gen 2 thermals, spall liners, and good round is also quite nice.
The turret armour is still usable, the gen 2 thermals and gun handling (including the gun depression) is still usable. The reload and round is still usable.
It’s definitely not the best but it can still handle quite well in a full uptier.
That is so untrue I’m going to pretend I didn’t hear that.
You think the Leclercs and Arietes are better armoured?
Besides, it’s a full uptier. Of course you’re going to be outmatched by everything that is suppose to be better.
The T-72A is worse or on-par with the T-64B in every way.
Does that make the T-72A bad at 9.3? Of course not.
oh well i haven’t played the thing since that demon shitter got added
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the challenger 2 TES has comparable ufp armour to a 10.7 tank
the turret armour is barely usable your acting like your breech isnt the tallest thing on the planet and the roof is a weakspot cause you can shoot the gunner sight and kill the commander and gunner
in a full uptier your armours comparable to maybe a sepv2 but your slower have a worse sustained rof a worse round worse survivability worse gun handling it can compete sure but its by no means good
and at the br yes the 2a4 and abrams are better than the cr2 or were before the bmpt was added i guess
the t72b3 has a better round better gun handling better hull armour better side armour and is a lower br
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What’s with you comparing things at a lower BR as if they don’t have significantly worse flaws to compensate? 😭
The T-80UD has much worse gun depression, much worse reverse speed, crappier turret armour, crappier gun handling, worse round, no spall liners, and no thermals.
I can say the same thing like how the T-80U-E1 (a 12.0 tank) has comparable armour to the T-80UD (a 10.7 tank).
Therefore 12.0 MBT’s armour must be abysmal. (Of course not. T-80U’s armour is still pretty good even at 12.0).
It really isn’t that big:
No?
Yes… but the SEP V2 is 12.7, not 11.7.
I’m not saying the Challenger 2 should be 12.7 😅
We both agree that the SEP V2 is objectively better so I don’t know what are you trying to argue here.
At their respective BRs? I could see that.
But should the 2A4 / Abrams be the same BR as the Challenger 2? Hell no.
Challenger 2 is way better.
Challenger 2 has spall liners, more crew, better gun depression, better turret armour, better reload, ESS, and much better reverse speed.
That’s why it’s 0.3 BR higher than the T-72B3.
i mean personally i think we gone completely off track. my whole point was no matter the br its armour is worthless for its 75 ton weight
The armour is pretty good, especially because it has gun depression and reverse speed to play hull-down.
Once it’s hull-down, its armour is 2nd / 3rd best in the game, and is definitely worth it.
Sure, it may not be worth it in other cases, but at 11.7, it’s definitely good.
theres not many maps where u can actually go hull down and the breech area is still very tall compared to the gun placement because the guns lower down with a big pennable forehead above it personally i think they should fix the breech armour hull armour and give it the spall liners in the hull
Sure there are, but name me a few.
It’s smaller than the giant boxes that are what other tanks have.
Even the T-72s (that sacrifice most of its stats for armour, round, gun handling, and acceleration) is worse than the Challenger’s.
Not true.
I’ve already shown you that it ricochets.
If it gets better breech and hull armour it could quite possibly go to 12.0 depending on how much better they’d be.
Have you even played the Challenger 2s properly?
It already does:
It seems like you’re just trying to make stuff up at this point…
Dude. Trust me. The Challenger 2 is underrated. Especially now that most MBTs moved up.
The Challenger 2 used to be 0.3 BR lower than the 2A7V. (11.7 vs 12.0)
Now it’s a whole 1.0 BR lower than it. (11.7 vs 12.7).
It’s in a really good spot.
It also doesn’t have a turret basket yet, so another win for it.
have i even played the challenger 2s properly. son we cant be serious
also i meant the cr2 is supposed to have spall liners on the lfp and side of the hull not just the ufp