why, its pretty decent
Ill vote YES as i believe why not let you remove ERA and make it basically challenger 2 at higher BR…
But why?
i bought it so i will have a lineup straight ahead.
i don’t think it needs buffs if i have some more mobility it would be fine w me i already enjoy it a lot xd
T-72B3’s hull armour is better but the turret is worse. The forehead is a giant weakspot unlike with the Challenger 2’s:
Except the T72B3 has much worse gun depression, reload, and reverse speed.
The armour and acceleration is all the T72B3 has over the Challenger 2, and even then, it doesn’t have that great turret armour or top speed to utilize.
You seriously think the 2A4s and Abrams are better than the Challenger 2?
Again, hull armour is usable all the way to 12.0 in a lot of cases.
Type 90s struggle with it, T-80Us struggle with it, TKX (P) struggles with it.
And those that don’t struggle are either much higher (12.3 / 12.7) or have other flaws (like I stated before).
You can work around those flaws because it’s not a T-Series tank and actually has good gun depression to work with its great turret armour, has great reverse speed to back away if you’re in a bad situation, and a 5s reload (albeit a small first stage) to outreload and kill multiple targets quickly.
The Gen 2 thermals, spall liners, and good round is also quite nice.
The turret armour is still usable, the gen 2 thermals and gun handling (including the gun depression) is still usable. The reload and round is still usable.
It’s definitely not the best but it can still handle quite well in a full uptier.
That is so untrue I’m going to pretend I didn’t hear that.
You think the Leclercs and Arietes are better armoured?
Besides, it’s a full uptier. Of course you’re going to be outmatched by everything that is suppose to be better.
The T-72A is worse or on-par with the T-64B in every way.
Does that make the T-72A bad at 9.3? Of course not.
oh well i haven’t played the thing since that demon shitter got added
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the challenger 2 TES has comparable ufp armour to a 10.7 tank
the turret armour is barely usable your acting like your breech isnt the tallest thing on the planet and the roof is a weakspot cause you can shoot the gunner sight and kill the commander and gunner
in a full uptier your armours comparable to maybe a sepv2 but your slower have a worse sustained rof a worse round worse survivability worse gun handling it can compete sure but its by no means good
and at the br yes the 2a4 and abrams are better than the cr2 or were before the bmpt was added i guess
the t72b3 has a better round better gun handling better hull armour better side armour and is a lower br
What’s with you comparing things at a lower BR as if they don’t have significantly worse flaws to compensate? 😭
The T-80UD has much worse gun depression, much worse reverse speed, crappier turret armour, crappier gun handling, worse round, no spall liners, and no thermals.
I can say the same thing like how the T-80U-E1 (a 12.0 tank) has comparable armour to the T-80UD (a 10.7 tank).
Therefore 12.0 MBT’s armour must be abysmal. (Of course not. T-80U’s armour is still pretty good even at 12.0).
It really isn’t that big:
No?
Yes… but the SEP V2 is 12.7, not 11.7.
I’m not saying the Challenger 2 should be 12.7 😅
We both agree that the SEP V2 is objectively better so I don’t know what are you trying to argue here.
At their respective BRs? I could see that.
But should the 2A4 / Abrams be the same BR as the Challenger 2? Hell no.
Challenger 2 is way better.
Challenger 2 has spall liners, more crew, better gun depression, better turret armour, better reload, ESS, and much better reverse speed.
That’s why it’s 0.3 BR higher than the T-72B3.
i mean personally i think we gone completely off track. my whole point was no matter the br its armour is worthless for its 75 ton weight
The armour is pretty good, especially because it has gun depression and reverse speed to play hull-down.
Once it’s hull-down, its armour is 2nd / 3rd best in the game, and is definitely worth it.
Sure, it may not be worth it in other cases, but at 11.7, it’s definitely good.
theres not many maps where u can actually go hull down and the breech area is still very tall compared to the gun placement because the guns lower down with a big pennable forehead above it personally i think they should fix the breech armour hull armour and give it the spall liners in the hull
Sure there are, but name me a few.
It’s smaller than the giant boxes that are what other tanks have.
Even the T-72s (that sacrifice most of its stats for armour, round, gun handling, and acceleration) is worse than the Challenger’s.
Not true.
I’ve already shown you that it ricochets.
If it gets better breech and hull armour it could quite possibly go to 12.0 depending on how much better they’d be.
Have you even played the Challenger 2s properly?
It already does:
It seems like you’re just trying to make stuff up at this point…
Dude. Trust me. The Challenger 2 is underrated. Especially now that most MBTs moved up.
The Challenger 2 used to be 0.3 BR lower than the 2A7V. (11.7 vs 12.0)
Now it’s a whole 1.0 BR lower than it. (11.7 vs 12.7).
It’s in a really good spot.
It also doesn’t have a turret basket yet, so another win for it.
have i even played the challenger 2s properly. son we cant be serious
also i meant the cr2 is supposed to have spall liners on the lfp and side of the hull not just the ufp
It seems like you’re doing just as well in the Challengers as all other MBTs.
Ok, at least you clarified it.
I mean, I’d be fine with that if it does indeed have it there.
also sorry for the 2nd reply but if the breech armour and ufp armour was in a realistic ish state im pretty sure it would be around 580-600 on the ufp and im gonna have to find my source for the mantlet
theres an accepted bug report with photo evidence of the spall liners so yeah
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That would be crazy good, especially when angled and on a hill.
Definitely would have to go to 12.0 to be honest.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/G4fTz108tdYo
i couldnt find the thing again for the mantlet but heres a bug report explaining it well
also the ufp protection would be around 550mm KE protection so i was wrong there but still
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550mm would be a lot less usable than ~580mm, but it would allow you to tank 3BM60 and other ~570mm pen darts when angled found at 11.0 ~ 12.7.
yeah also the ufp model im pretty sure is wrong aswell it should be more angled not that that would mean much but yk every little helps
Community Bug Reporting System i did find this bug report which from what i read makes the ufp 550mm and a 50mm (87mm KE) add on plate