No they aren’t, in your post that I replied to, my quote contained your reply words. Check it yourself.
It’s still gambling. It’s also not truly “no-cost”, because you can spend real money on it if you want to.
Loot boxes are, silver itself isn’t. Read what I said.
The loot boxes use a gambling system, the warbond shop does not.
No, it’s the game’s problem for giving them the ability to spend real money for silver.
that’s like saying a drug addicts problem is their own, not their dealers.
They wouldn’t be an addict if the dealer didn’t exist in the first place.
this is exactly why the EU has started planning rules and laws around loot boxes and a few EU countries have already put in place their own local laws. and its expanding, slowly yes, but still.
how is playing the game for several hours easier than buying millions of SL in less than 10 seconds?
Gonna quibble here. SL feels like a currency, but it’s also something of an XP system. You can also get it, quite a bit of it, by playing. This makes it different from GE or GJN which you can only get from play in a few very tightly controlled, mostly indirect ways, for these purposes.
A rough conversion rate, if you were to buy SL with real money (note, never buy SL with real money) is about 100,000 SL to the US dollar (which 1 GJN is pegged to). Does anyone out there really feel that if they’ve played enough tonight to make a million SL, that they’ve earned the equivalent of $10 in any real sense? If someone gave you the choice between a free $50 store premium and 6 million SL on your account, would anyone go, yeah dude, take the SL, that’s worth $10 more?
I mean, yes, your playtime has value, put a value to it. Everyone should. But your time is worth both more and less than that raw conversion rate.
The thing with SL is, assuming I’m not buying SL for gambling purposes with real money (note, never buy SL with real money), I can still play the game at 0 SL balance. There is no negative SL state. I can always start back from zero and make more (and then gamble that away too if I really want). So so long as you keep it as SL lootboxes, the worst your gambling addiction gets you is… back to 0 SL.
Gambling with GE for lootboxes, because it can only really be gained by spending real money, is the company actively encouraging you to take real money and give it to them on a gamble. There’s no other way to interpret their actions. And this is inherently more pernicious and dangerous… because adolescents play this game, and they can run mom’s credit card into the negative, and when that happens it will be 100% Gaijin’s fault for creating systems that encouraged them to do so.
At least with SL gambling, Gaijin can still be saying, mostly honestly, “look we just wanted to give you an incentive to play some more when you’ve already got 100 million SL you alraeady can’t spend.” (Is it the incentive structure I’d prefer?.. no. But you can still say it serves at least some positive purpose.) With GE gambling, they’re saying, “look we want you to go to mom and ask her for food money, and we might give you something if you do.” Much greater moral hazard involved.
that’s the issue, do you really think an addict would stop when they get to 0SL? Do you think real gambling addicts stop when they empty their bank accounts IRL? no, they take out loans, sell their car, start stealing (buying SL with real money).
this i agree wholeheartedly with. Im glad the EU is looking at loot boxes in games and plan to put rules/laws in place.
well… the issue here being that SL can be bought with GE, insert Rick and Morty meme “that just sounds like GE gambling with extra steps.”
I like the system, its a neat way to spend SL you are not using anywhere else but then they should not sell SL for GE if they want this system.
A free currency that can be obtained with real money isn’t a free currency. When its primary form of collection is through f2p means, it’s a free currency. It’s a free crate. It’s a free reward.
It makes no difference whether or not you have the OPTION to get it with GE, using a paid currency to get a free currency is asinine on every level.
How is it difficult? It gives high value boosters, rare / expensive camos and decorations, and if you’re lucky enough, a premium vehicle. Again, at no cost.
Is that the primary means of obtaining SL? I can suck somebody off and they can gift me SL, is the crate now a form of sex trade for everybody that uses it?
It exists to have a randomized reward for a free entry.
That’s irrelevant to the point of it being a free currency.
It’s predatory to… Play 1 match and buy 2 crates with your earnings?
I’m not oddly aggressive? You seem EXTREMELY stuck on the fact that it’s possible to pay for a free currency, and that somehow deems the whole system as a paid conspiratorial scheme. It’s not. It’s a limited time F2P crate system that has the chance of rewarding a player in return for playtime.
It takes 0 effort to scroll.
So am I putting in real world cost by using SL to buy the crate? Simply because people that lack self restraint and have a borderline deficient level of compulsivity feel the need to spend money on a free currency?
Yeah, it isn’t. It’s a no-cost system using a no-cost currency. If you’re stupid enough to buy SL explicitly for crates, that’s on you.
So WB-based lootboxes aren’t free gambling, or gambling at all, though SL-based lootboxes are RMT gambling. Got it.
Both feature crates of the same exact nature.
you are completely missing the point. buying SL is asinine yes, so is buying drugs but does that stop an addict?
had the GE to SL option not been there i (and some others) wouldn’t have had issues with this system.
i like the “gambling” part of using SL i otherwise wont use. that does however not mean that it is a good system for those who struggle.
just because YOU can can control yourself doesn’t mean others can.
and as i said in a previous post:
how in the world do you gain 120.000 SL in one match?
that’s the thing, it can be. it might not be intended as such, but that does not take away from the fact that some people will buy SL to get more crates. Do you really think an addict would stop when they get to 0SL? Do you think real gambling addicts stop when they empty their bank accounts IRL? no, they take out loans, sell their car, start stealing (buying SL with real money).
If that is Gaijins plan to begin with we can never know (i doubt it is) but the fact remains that they will have monetary gain from it otherwise there would be no point for them to implement the system in the first place (whether it be from bought SL or market sales percentages).
Absolutely it is Gambling and underage gambling in the UK. The Age for online gambling here is 18 and Gaijin specifies 16 as its age in the small print. SL can be Purchased via GL which is credit card based so its cash for SL albeit indirectly.
It could be reported to the NSPCC in the UK or any other online monitoring or online Gambling body that monitors toxic behavior in Video games or online Gamblin.
It would sit nicely next to Gaijins failure to address the anti-Chinese hatred already left unchallenged elsewhere on the forum. I won’t report it because I play WT but the those who have a vendetta against Gaijin might, why give them ammo? We already have DOS attacks. Gaijin don’t do themselves any favours.
Beautiful false equivalency! Disregarded.
I’m sorry to say, but if you’ve stooped low enough to buy a free currency on a crate that needs 1 000 - 10 000 activations for a guaranteed rare prize… That’s still on you. It takes close to $990 to get a guaranteed rare prize, and to pay any less than that for something that is guaranteed to be worse is downright stupid.
Just because I can seek therapy doesn’t mean you can’t. This isn’t an exclusive problem to you, nor is it a problem you physically and mentally cannot overcome. If you aren’t actively trying to fix yourself, you have no say in what self-control measures there are.
Do… you not?
Hell, these were just my matches from today. All I’ve been using is a 75% RP booster.
I couldn’t care less what some people do. If they want to involve real-world money to buy a free currency, that’s their problem. It does not take away the fact that this is a free currency, and can be acquired in mass without the use of money.
I’d expect a gambling addict to do something about their gambling problem, not cry that it’s unfair and that everybody else should suffer because of their incompetence.
Read previous line^
I’ve already said, it’s their plan to release a no-cost crate to increase engagement with players like me. If they release large scale events and fun side-tasks, I play more. If they don’t, people like me play less.
Again, what does that have to do with the 99% playerbase that’s mentally functional and capable of free will?
Under the Gambling Act 2005, betting is defined as making or accepting a bet on:
(1)In this Act “betting” means making or accepting a bet on—
(a)the outcome of a race, competition or other event or process,
(b)the likelihood of anything occurring or not occurring, or
(c)whether anything is or is not true.
(2)A transaction that relates to the outcome of a race, competition or other event or process may be a bet within the meaning of subsection (1) despite the facts that—
(a)the race, competition, event or process has already occurred or been completed, and
(b)one party to the transaction knows the outcome.
(3)A transaction that relates to the likelihood of anything occurring or not occurring may be a bet within the meaning of subsection (1) despite the facts that—
(a)the thing has already occurred or failed to occur, and
(b)one party to the transaction knows that the thing has already occurred or failed to occur.
Exceptions to this rule are:
No charges need to be made to acquire a loot box, if you purchase any in-game item the only addition is those of tax / international fees, and the chances of these crates are clearly stated.
Then by all means, do so. It fits the exceptions perfectly.
In the Gaijin Store, 1000 GE is 6.6 GJN. I’ll compare this to the 3k GE purchase of 1.3M SL.
Said purchase is 19.8 GJN, which gives you 1.3M SL. That gives about 65.5k:1 SL/GJN.
Just wanted to knitpick, since crates have exact % chances for vehicles.
Take the IS-7 for example. That was 0.001%. You had to open 100k crates for a guaranteed IS-7.
Each crate / key was 60k. You’d need 6B SL to achieve that number.
Now, if we were to take that 65k/1gjn conversion rate, that’s… A lot of money.
how is it? Gambling addicts exists. that has at least been my point in this thread.’
please explain how that is a false equivalency?
stupidity does not stop addicts and is addiction the addicts fault or the dealers?
This is some weird as elitism. do people in need not deserve help when they can’t handle a situation by themselves?
the problem not being exclusive does not make it any less of a problem.
some people can’t overcome things on their own, and not for a lack of trying. everyone does not have the same level of function. everyone works differently, some need no help, others need some, a few need a lot.
who says they aren’t? and again, some people need more help than others even when they do try to fix themselves.
i don’t no. i don’t think a vast majority here do. you are WAY above the norm with those numbers. congrats!
that right there is not a good attitude to have. you are very free to have it but it makes you seem extremely egotistical and narcissistic.
i would not really call it a “free” currency. you still have to invest time to get it. and you do have the opportunity to purchase it for GE. its not like you get SL just by asking for it. its either time or money. just because you personally are seemingly swimming in SL does not mean that that is the norm.
gambling addiction is not incompetence, its an illness recognised by APA (American psychiatric association, their guides are what most psychologist around the world use).
compare to drugs, why do you think so much effort goes into stopping drugs from entering countries, stopping sellers from selling it, giving addicts treatments to help them rid of their addiction? would you want to take that supportsystem away? why should gambling addiction be treated any differently?
see previous answer.
you are absolutely not part of the norm here on SL earnings, those are ridiculous numbers. i would love to see your stats in those games, what game modes, what vehicles, premium or not, how often you get that much, etc.
at least to me its obvious that those who need help should receive help from those who don’t need it. just because most people function does not mean that those who don’t function doesn’t deserve help.
this is like saying “why should we give people who can’t walk wheelchairs when 99% of people can walk?”. helping the 1% isn’t inherently hindering the rest.
do those calculations with the max savings versions (25000GE and 1.3mil SL) and you get roughly 95k SL per dollar
I’m not contesting that statement, gambling addicts absolutely do exists.
Equating a no-cost crate to something like a nicotine or heroin addict is absolutely a false equivalency, though.
If you’re going out of your way to involve real-world money in a free crate event, that’s stupidity on the addict’s end.
What? Do you not understand what I said? Re-read it and come back.
The problem is that people will go out of their way to involve money in a free system, and now people like you are here crying because of it. Again, if you aren’t capable of keeping yourself in check and using a free currency for a free event, you shouldn’t be engaging in any action that can involve money.
It’s like an alcohol addict fermenting grape juice. You can go to any store nearby and buy some normal ass grape juice, but no. You need to drink your wine, and will do anything in your power to get that alcoholic content.
Oh, no, sorry, that’s the grape’s fault. Maybe there simply shouldn’t be any grape juice in the world, since you’re incapable of controlling yourself.
Thanks? If the norm you try to portray is senseless money spenders that can’t think freely and weigh options, I’m entirely glad that I’m above the norm.
How is it not a good attitude to have? I’m saying that those with detrimental delusions and habits have no sway in what I can or cannot do. Simply because people cannot keep their urges in check does not mean that everybody else should lose because of it.
If telling people with addictions to stop involving their addictions in my life is narcissistic, I’ll happily wilt.
Yes, it’s a game, games tend to do that. You invest time in a game for enjoyment. If you’re one of those people that decide that any second of your life spent gaming is lost money, don’t bring the argument up. It doesn’t apply here.
If you aren’t, then I believe we’re getting somewhere.
Just because you cannot control your spending habits doesn’t mean it’s the norm. Nobody here is stupid enough to spend real world currency on SL. Stop trying to drag down others because of it.
It’s a mental incompetence to properly use funds. That is exactly how it is characterized.
Because it’s one of the leading causes of mental illnesses and crime, and a very large statistic for worldwide deaths. 1/3.2k people die yearly to drug overdoses, nobody has died due to a 60k SL crate that’s available for 1 month.
Victory in the [Domination] Breslau mission!
Destruction of ground vehicles and fleets 12 34560 SL 2526 RP
1:53 T-90M Leopard 2A7V 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 118 + (PA)118 = 236 RP
2:20 T-90M Leopard 2A5 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 118 + (PA)118 = 236 RP
3:33 T-90M Leclerc AZUR 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 118 + (PA)118 = 236 RP
3:47 T-90M Leopard 2A4 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 94 + (PA)94 = 188 RP
4:00 T-90M Black Night 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 118 + (PA)118 = 236 RP
4:26 T-90M Leopard 2A6 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 118 + (PA)118 = 236 RP
4:34 T-90M M1128 Wolfpack 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 91 + (PA)91 = 182 RP
4:43 T-90M Leopard 2 PL 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 112 + (PA)112 = 224 RP
5:43 T-90M Black Night 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 118 + (PA)118 = 236 RP
7:21 T-90M Strf 9040 BILL 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 91 + (PA)91 = 182 RP
8:02 T-90M Type 90 1940 + (PA)970 = 2910 SL 106 + (PA)106 = 212 RP
11:10 Su-25T ItO 90M() 1700 + (PA)850 = 2550 SL 61 + (PA)61 = 122 RP
Assistance in destroying the enemy 1 1311 SL 108 RP
5:15 T-90M Strv 122B PLSS 873 + (PA)438 = 1311 SL 54 + (PA)54 = 108 RP
Critical damage to the enemy 12 3456 SL 254 RP
1:53 T-90M Leopard 2A7V 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 12 + (PA)12 = 24 RP
2:20 T-90M Leopard 2A5 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 12 + (PA)12 = 24 RP
3:33 T-90M Leclerc AZUR 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 12 + (PA)12 = 24 RP
3:40 T-90M Black Night 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 12 + (PA)12 = 24 RP
3:47 T-90M Leopard 2A4 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 9 + (PA)9 = 18 RP
4:26 T-90M Leopard 2A6 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 12 + (PA)12 = 24 RP
4:34 T-90M M1128 Wolfpack 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 9 + (PA)9 = 18 RP
4:43 T-90M Leopard 2 PL 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 11 + (PA)11 = 22 RP
5:43 T-90M Black Night 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 12 + (PA)12 = 24 RP
7:21 T-90M Strf 9040 BILL 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 9 + (PA)9 = 18 RP
8:02 T-90M Type 90 194 + (PA)97 = 291 SL 11 + (PA)11 = 22 RP
11:10 Su-25T ItO 90M() 170 + (PA)85 = 255 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
Damage to the enemy 20 2902 SL 226 RP
1:53 T-90M Leopard 2A7V 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
2:20 T-90M Leopard 2A5 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
3:33 T-90M Leclerc AZUR 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
3:40 T-90M Black Night 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
3:47 T-90M Leopard 2A4 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 5 + (PA)5 = 10 RP
3:55 T-90M Black Night 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
4:00 T-90M Black Night 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
4:26 T-90M Leopard 2A6 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
4:34 T-90M M1128 Wolfpack 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 5 + (PA)5 = 10 RP
4:43 T-90M Leopard 2 PL 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
5:01 T-90M Black Night 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
5:10 T-90M Strv 122B PLSS 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
5:43 T-90M Black Night 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
7:21 T-90M Strf 9040 BILL 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 5 + (PA)5 = 10 RP
8:02 T-90M Type 90 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 5 + (PA)5 = 10 RP
9:31 T-90M CV 90120 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
9:32 T-90M CV 90120 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
9:42 T-90M CV 90120 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
9:47 T-90M CV 90120 97 + (PA)49 = 146 SL 6 + (PA)6 = 12 RP
11:10 Su-25T ItO 90M() 85 + (PA)43 = 128 SL 3 + (PA)3 = 6 RP
Awards 28 13725 SL
1:53 Tank Rescuer 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
2:20 Multi strike! 100 + (PA)50 = 150 SL
3:33 Shadow strike streak! 100 + (PA)50 = 150 SL
3:48 Shadow strike streak! 100 + (PA)50 = 150 SL
3:48 Multi strike! 100 + (PA)50 = 150 SL
4:00 Professional 150 + (PA)75 = 225 SL
4:00 Shadow strike streak! 100 + (PA)50 = 150 SL
4:00 Multi strike! 500 + (PA)250 = 750 SL
4:27 Tank Rescuer 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
4:27 Professional 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
4:27 Shadow strike streak! 100 + (PA)50 = 150 SL
4:27 Multi strike! 500 + (PA)250 = 750 SL
4:35 Tank Rescuer 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
4:35 Professional 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
4:35 Shadow strike streak! 100 + (PA)50 = 150 SL
4:35 Multi strike! 500 + (PA)250 = 750 SL
4:44 Professional 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
4:44 Shadow strike streak! 100 + (PA)50 = 150 SL
4:44 Multi strike! 500 + (PA)250 = 750 SL
5:43 Professional 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
7:21 Tank Rescuer 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
7:21 Professional 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
8:03 Avenger 150 + (PA)75 = 225 SL
8:03 Professional 50 + (PA)25 = 75 SL
9:36 Adamant 300 + (PA)150 = 450 SL
11:11 Ground Force Rescuer 150 + (PA)75 = 225 SL
11:11 Avenger 100 + (PA)50 = 150 SL
11:16 Heavy Metal Hero 5000 + (PA)2500 = 7500 SL
Activity Time 2 3156 SL 222 RP
11:15 Su-25T 588 + (PA)588 = 1176 SL 5 + (PA)5 = 10 RP
11:15 T-90M 990 + (PA)990 = 1980 SL 106 + (PA)106 = 212 RP
Time Played 2 4280 RP
Su-25T 57% 1:05 132 + (PA)132 = 264 RP
T-90M 100% 9:27 2008 + (PA)2008 = 4016 RP
Reward for winning 21196 SL
Skill Bonus 3808 RP
Su-25T
T-90M
Earned: 80306 SL, 11424 CRP
Activity: 94%
Damaged Vehicles: T-90M
Automatic repair of all vehicles free.
Researched unit:
Strela-10M2: 3240 RP
Researching progress:
Su-25T - Wings repair: 65 RP
T-90M - NVD: 5823 RP
Session: 250c835003a4242
Total: 80306 SL, 11424 CRP, 9128 RP
So they can go receive it. What does that have to do with my SL crates?
Why should we be removing all stairs in the world when that 1% has every capability to get in an elevator or go up a ramp?
True, I just went with the 1000 GE figure because it’s one of the more common packages to get, as well as easier to calculate.
first one i get a MG
again its no cost till that addict has zero on their account and they start buying SL for real money. Its like all the online casinos doing “free spins” for new users, do you think they do that for fun or because they know people will start spending real money in the end?
again, stupidity is not a fault of the person, its a fault of the addiction. why do you think drug addicts start stealing to afford drugs? addicts do stupid things because they are addicts, not because they are stupid.
seeking therapy is a part of that self control you talk about. firstly therapy is not free, i don’t think any addict can afford therapy. secondly; seeking help ≠ getting help. seeking help requires just the type of restraint and self control addicts lack, getting help happens without the need for the individual to handle something they cant handle.
do you think they have a choice? its NOT a question of self control or “keeping yourself in check”, its an illness, they literally can’t control themselves as a part of the symptoms. would you tell a depressed person to “just stop being sad och be happy instead”?
(i personally have no issues with my self control, i would ask you to stop saying “you”).
don’t you think the issues started earlier than that? the addiction does not start with fermenting their own alcohol. they got the alcohol from somewhere else to begin with. the addiction started at the dealer. and again " since you’re incapable of controlling yourself." its not about a lack of self control, its an illness. its not a choice.
what? what gave you that idea? i’m talking about people with addictions. not people who lack self control. i was also referring to the amount of SL you earn per match being way above norm, nothing else, how you got that to be anything else i do not understand.
that is literally how the entire world works though. why do you think any law exists? why do you think police exists?
you said
“I couldn’t care less what some people do. If they want to involve real-world money to buy a free currency, that’s their problem”.
which very much sounds like “i don’t care if people have issues or hardships in life, don’t restrict me to help them”. and if that is not narcissism i don’t know what is.
i do not believe that no. but i would still consider that time spent a form of “payment” to get the SL.
does that button magically give you SL without having to do anything at all? could i just press that one 5 times a second and gain billions of SL per minute?
free means free, no cost what so ever, a handout, a gift. you have to “work” (play) to get SL, it takes time and if you want a lot of it it also takes skill.
its not what i ment. i have millions of SL. i ment as income per game. and again, i personally have no issues gaining SL or having self control to not spend it. i’m just advocating for those less fortunate. and no, they aren’t all stupid or incompetent or lack self control (sure, some will be, but those are not the ones i’m referring to when talking). of NO ONE spent real world money on SL, why would Gaijin offer to sell it for GE? the option would not be there if people didn’t use it.
no, absolutely not.
true, i did a very exaggerated comparison.
but how many gambling addicts do you think take their own life? or start doing crimes to afford their gambling? yes, drugs are worse, but that does not mean this isn’t a problem. one problem does not make another less of a problem.
yeah, you are absolutely above the norm. the norm being a 1:1 kd by definition. a lot of people do not have a premium account (which arguably is a form of buying SL for money btw), i actually think a big majority don’t have premium but i can’t remember the numbers right now, i think Gaijin said that 80% of the player base never pay anything but i’m unsure.
“go receive it” then they seek it do they not? difference here being seeking and receiving. receiving help can be in the form of new rule implementations to hinder them from doing what they can’t control.
it has to do with the ability to buy SL in combination with the crates being of a gambling nature.
(i saw you post above, crates would fall under this: “betting is defined as making or accepting a bet on:
The outcome of a race, competition or other event or process;” you are paying SL to bet on the outcome of a specific item from the randomized crate result)
that’s not comparable.
my example was withholding help for the 1% because its not an issue for the 99%, yours is hindering the 99% without helping the 1%.
To me it’s the option existing that makes it truly dishonest. Having the ability to buy silver with gold means you can, even if indirectly, buy the loot box with real money, which I will outright say should not be allowed, period.
Even if it was no way to buy silver with real money, I would still argue that having the items available through a roulette is a terrible system.
