The Dragon Box

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76

It’s not impossible, it merely requires making it illegal to be able to spend real money on a random reward.

That is incorrect, because while the loot boxes can only be bought with silver, you can buy gold with real money and exchange that gold for silver. This system exists to clear the legal requirement of not having real money traded directly for gambling and if you ask me, it should also be illegal to do this. It shouldn’t be possible to exchange real money for a random reward, no matter how many steps there are to obfuscate it.

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77

Why did you replace my quote with your own reply? And where did I take your comment out of context?

He said this system was gambling, which it is. You said warbonds are more of a gamble, which is false because warbonds are not gambling. I’m not saying warbonds are necessarily easier or harder, I am saying they are not gambling, which the loot boxes are.

The “no gamble” part was referring to the warbond shop. It seems you are the one who didn’t bother reading my comment at all.

78

So… It doesn’t remove this? The snowmen and these dragon boxes are SL, a free currency.

Having a random reward has no consequence when there isn’t a price to pay.

You yourself just said that the loot boxes are bought with SL. How is that a paid gamble? You can get SL from the warbond shop, you can get 3k for flying around for 5 minutes with 0 points.

The system exists to have a randomized reward for a free entry.

Then don’t exchange real world money for an in-gam free currency? What is wrong with you?

79

I didn’t, those are your exact words.

Yes, no-cost gambling. Issue?

But SL is? Make up your mind.

Both are free currencies and give you rewards with said free currency. Where is the discrepancy?

80

biggest problem with this argument (even though i agree with you in general) is that SL CAN be bought with real money, so people with a gambling addiction could get hooked and start paying real money to continue when the free SL runs out.

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81

That’s their problem NOT the game.

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82

If there is a free and a paid version of the same thing, with the free version being unimaginably easier to get through lower amounts, its clear what the crate is.

83

A free currency that can be obtained with real money. If you couldn’t get silver using gold, you would have a point, as it stands your argument falls flat.

Although I would say even then the rewards being so difficult to get still makes it an undesirable system.

I literally said you can exchange gold for silver. Read what I actually posted.

No, the system exists to clear the legal requirement of not having real money traded directly for gambling. Refer to what I said before about buying silver using gold.

I don’t, I’m saying it shouldn’t be allowed because it’s predatory.

What is wrong with you? You are the one being oddly aggressive against me for pointing out the obvious while you defend a corporation and their practices.

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84

No they aren’t, in your post that I replied to, my quote contained your reply words. Check it yourself.

It’s still gambling. It’s also not truly “no-cost”, because you can spend real money on it if you want to.

Loot boxes are, silver itself isn’t. Read what I said.

The loot boxes use a gambling system, the warbond shop does not.

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85

No, it’s the game’s problem for giving them the ability to spend real money for silver.

86

that’s like saying a drug addicts problem is their own, not their dealers.
They wouldn’t be an addict if the dealer didn’t exist in the first place.
this is exactly why the EU has started planning rules and laws around loot boxes and a few EU countries have already put in place their own local laws. and its expanding, slowly yes, but still.

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87

how is playing the game for several hours easier than buying millions of SL in less than 10 seconds?

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88

Gonna quibble here. SL feels like a currency, but it’s also something of an XP system. You can also get it, quite a bit of it, by playing. This makes it different from GE or GJN which you can only get from play in a few very tightly controlled, mostly indirect ways, for these purposes.

A rough conversion rate, if you were to buy SL with real money (note, never buy SL with real money) is about 100,000 SL to the US dollar (which 1 GJN is pegged to). Does anyone out there really feel that if they’ve played enough tonight to make a million SL, that they’ve earned the equivalent of $10 in any real sense? If someone gave you the choice between a free $50 store premium and 6 million SL on your account, would anyone go, yeah dude, take the SL, that’s worth $10 more?

I mean, yes, your playtime has value, put a value to it. Everyone should. But your time is worth both more and less than that raw conversion rate.

The thing with SL is, assuming I’m not buying SL for gambling purposes with real money (note, never buy SL with real money), I can still play the game at 0 SL balance. There is no negative SL state. I can always start back from zero and make more (and then gamble that away too if I really want). So so long as you keep it as SL lootboxes, the worst your gambling addiction gets you is… back to 0 SL.

Gambling with GE for lootboxes, because it can only really be gained by spending real money, is the company actively encouraging you to take real money and give it to them on a gamble. There’s no other way to interpret their actions. And this is inherently more pernicious and dangerous… because adolescents play this game, and they can run mom’s credit card into the negative, and when that happens it will be 100% Gaijin’s fault for creating systems that encouraged them to do so.

At least with SL gambling, Gaijin can still be saying, mostly honestly, “look we just wanted to give you an incentive to play some more when you’ve already got 100 million SL you alraeady can’t spend.” (Is it the incentive structure I’d prefer?.. no. But you can still say it serves at least some positive purpose.) With GE gambling, they’re saying, “look we want you to go to mom and ask her for food money, and we might give you something if you do.” Much greater moral hazard involved.

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89

that’s the issue, do you really think an addict would stop when they get to 0SL? Do you think real gambling addicts stop when they empty their bank accounts IRL? no, they take out loans, sell their car, start stealing (buying SL with real money).

this i agree wholeheartedly with. Im glad the EU is looking at loot boxes in games and plan to put rules/laws in place.

well… the issue here being that SL can be bought with GE, insert Rick and Morty meme “that just sounds like GE gambling with extra steps.”
I like the system, its a neat way to spend SL you are not using anywhere else but then they should not sell SL for GE if they want this system.

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90

A free currency that can be obtained with real money isn’t a free currency. When its primary form of collection is through f2p means, it’s a free currency. It’s a free crate. It’s a free reward.
It makes no difference whether or not you have the OPTION to get it with GE, using a paid currency to get a free currency is asinine on every level.

How is it difficult? It gives high value boosters, rare / expensive camos and decorations, and if you’re lucky enough, a premium vehicle. Again, at no cost.

Is that the primary means of obtaining SL? I can suck somebody off and they can gift me SL, is the crate now a form of sex trade for everybody that uses it?

It exists to have a randomized reward for a free entry.

That’s irrelevant to the point of it being a free currency.

It’s predatory to… Play 1 match and buy 2 crates with your earnings?

I’m not oddly aggressive? You seem EXTREMELY stuck on the fact that it’s possible to pay for a free currency, and that somehow deems the whole system as a paid conspiratorial scheme. It’s not. It’s a limited time F2P crate system that has the chance of rewarding a player in return for playtime.

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It takes 0 effort to scroll.

So am I putting in real world cost by using SL to buy the crate? Simply because people that lack self restraint and have a borderline deficient level of compulsivity feel the need to spend money on a free currency?

Yeah, it isn’t. It’s a no-cost system using a no-cost currency. If you’re stupid enough to buy SL explicitly for crates, that’s on you.

So WB-based lootboxes aren’t free gambling, or gambling at all, though SL-based lootboxes are RMT gambling. Got it.

Both feature crates of the same exact nature.

92

you are completely missing the point. buying SL is asinine yes, so is buying drugs but does that stop an addict?

had the GE to SL option not been there i (and some others) wouldn’t have had issues with this system.
i like the “gambling” part of using SL i otherwise wont use. that does however not mean that it is a good system for those who struggle.
just because YOU can can control yourself doesn’t mean others can.
and as i said in a previous post:

how in the world do you gain 120.000 SL in one match?

that’s the thing, it can be. it might not be intended as such, but that does not take away from the fact that some people will buy SL to get more crates. Do you really think an addict would stop when they get to 0SL? Do you think real gambling addicts stop when they empty their bank accounts IRL? no, they take out loans, sell their car, start stealing (buying SL with real money).
If that is Gaijins plan to begin with we can never know (i doubt it is) but the fact remains that they will have monetary gain from it otherwise there would be no point for them to implement the system in the first place (whether it be from bought SL or market sales percentages).

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93

Absolutely it is Gambling and underage gambling in the UK. The Age for online gambling here is 18 and Gaijin specifies 16 as its age in the small print. SL can be Purchased via GL which is credit card based so its cash for SL albeit indirectly.

It could be reported to the NSPCC in the UK or any other online monitoring or online Gambling body that monitors toxic behavior in Video games or online Gamblin.

It would sit nicely next to Gaijins failure to address the anti-Chinese hatred already left unchallenged elsewhere on the forum. I won’t report it because I play WT but the those who have a vendetta against Gaijin might, why give them ammo? We already have DOS attacks. Gaijin don’t do themselves any favours.

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94

Beautiful false equivalency! Disregarded.

I’m sorry to say, but if you’ve stooped low enough to buy a free currency on a crate that needs 1 000 - 10 000 activations for a guaranteed rare prize… That’s still on you. It takes close to $990 to get a guaranteed rare prize, and to pay any less than that for something that is guaranteed to be worse is downright stupid.

Just because I can seek therapy doesn’t mean you can’t. This isn’t an exclusive problem to you, nor is it a problem you physically and mentally cannot overcome. If you aren’t actively trying to fix yourself, you have no say in what self-control measures there are.

Do… you not?
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Hell, these were just my matches from today. All I’ve been using is a 75% RP booster.

I couldn’t care less what some people do. If they want to involve real-world money to buy a free currency, that’s their problem. It does not take away the fact that this is a free currency, and can be acquired in mass without the use of money.

I’d expect a gambling addict to do something about their gambling problem, not cry that it’s unfair and that everybody else should suffer because of their incompetence.

Read previous line^

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I’ve already said, it’s their plan to release a no-cost crate to increase engagement with players like me. If they release large scale events and fun side-tasks, I play more. If they don’t, people like me play less.

Again, what does that have to do with the 99% playerbase that’s mentally functional and capable of free will?

95

Under the Gambling Act 2005, betting is defined as making or accepting a bet on:

  • The outcome of a race, competition or other event or process;
  • The likelihood of anything occurring or not occurring; or
  • Whether anything is or is not true.

(1)In this Act “betting” means making or accepting a bet on—

(a)the outcome of a race, competition or other event or process,

(b)the likelihood of anything occurring or not occurring, or

(c)whether anything is or is not true.

(2)A transaction that relates to the outcome of a race, competition or other event or process may be a bet within the meaning of subsection (1) despite the facts that—

(a)the race, competition, event or process has already occurred or been completed, and

(b)one party to the transaction knows the outcome.

(3)A transaction that relates to the likelihood of anything occurring or not occurring may be a bet within the meaning of subsection (1) despite the facts that—

(a)the thing has already occurred or failed to occur, and

(b)one party to the transaction knows that the thing has already occurred or failed to occur.

Exceptions to this rule are:

  • No charges were to be made for gaming;
  • No levies were to be taken from the stakes and;
  • If the games were not of equal chance, then the chances were to be equalised by the method of play (for example, by rotating the bank between players).

No charges need to be made to acquire a loot box, if you purchase any in-game item the only addition is those of tax / international fees, and the chances of these crates are clearly stated.

Then by all means, do so. It fits the exceptions perfectly.