The CS/SA5 Is MID

[TPS_Hydra]

So it has a very good gun with AHEAD

Have you even seen the video I’ve attached to the post? You can clearly see an AGM-65D Maverick flying through my sea of lead - you can further notice it flying through my tracers, it wasn’t bad aim…

Sure, you can use AHEAD but you’ll sacrifice your penetration for it, 37mm of RHA penetration is not adequate for self defence against ground units - guess what? The Pantsir doesn’t need to do this type of sacrifice as its guns actually work as intended.

Its an SPAA, and weaker than most 8.3 ATGM slingers. Why people fixate on the ability for the ADATS to spam 8x missiles into something and maybe kill them is beyond me

It’s a SPAA with the ability to rampage tanks, this isn’t something you simply overlook. 900mm of RHA penetration is no laughing matter, I have BOTH American and British ADATS and those missiles can and will be used effectively by a good player.

Especially when most top tier guns on things can do about the same kind of damage

Most SPAAs can’t do what the ADATS can do when it comes to self defence, this is something entirely unique to the ADATS (missile wise) and again isn’t something to overlook.

Only the US ADATS has a Gun. Also at 11.7 is the Canadian ADATS with… No Gun, at all

I was referring to the ADATS not the ADATS (M113), the M113 is borderline worse but it’s not like it should move down to 11.3, it’s fine as it is.

This is also ignoring the fact that the ADATS doesn’t give a RWR launch warning, has a smokeless motor and can actually intercept things with its gun (with questionable results however, still not as worse as the CS/SA5)

[Morvran]

@TPS_Hydra

Have you even seen the video I’ve attached to the post? You can clearly see an AGM-65D Maverick flying through my sea of lead - you can further notice it flying through my tracers, it wasn’t bad aim…

Sure, you can use AHEAD but you’ll sacrifice your penetration for it, 37mm of RHA penetration is not adequate for self defence against ground units - guess what? The Pantsir doesn’t need to do this type of sacrifice as its guns actually work as intended.

So AHEAD is a little buggy? Why does the CS/SA5 need a BR drop? Why not just submit a bug report?

@TPS_Hydra

It’s a SPAA with the ability to rampage tanks, this isn’t something you simply overlook. 900mm of RHA penetration is no laughing matter, I have BOTH American and British ADATS and those missiles can and will be used effectively by a good player.

Rampage?

Its too slow to get anywhere. Its so massive its impossible not to be spotted. You cannot peek behind cover, you are either exposed or not exposed.

The missile dont do consistant damage, It usually takes multiple to disable a target the missiles spiral like mad.

And again. If its being judged by its performance as an ATGM slinger, then it can be 8,3 ish?

Definetly weaker than the Striker.

@TPS_Hydra

Most SPAAs can’t do what the ADATS can do when it comes to self defence, this is something entirely unique to the ADATS (missile wise) and again isn’t something to overlook.

and again? So it can spam missiles at a tank. Great Would still prefer an SPAA that could deal with something other than a heli as you know. Its an SPAA. Not an ATGM slinger.

Still cant wait to never ever have to use the ADATS again if/when it gets replaced. If the CS/SA5 should be 11.3. Then ADATS should be 10.7.

I literally use the Stormer HVM and not the ADATS because the HVM is just better

So again. Why should the CS/SA5 go down to below 12.0?

[TPS_Hydra]

So AHEAD is a little buggy? Why does the CS/SA5 need a BR drop? Why not just submit a bug report?

Because a bug free CS/SA5 would still underperform when compared to its competitors? I hope you do realise this is a IR slinging SPAA, not to the extent of the IRIS-T but much closer in line to the LAV-AD/Stinger. It doesn’t have contrast lock like the Strela and doesn’t have SACLOS like the ADATS.

You cannot correct for error, if the missile loses lock then that’s it, the missile is wasted - you can’t manually adjust it with you mouse.

The vehicle is more in line with something like the ADATS or FlaRakRad performance wise, it has far inferior missiles than to the FlaRakRad in both speed, range and manoeuvrability but has more total missiles and a rotary cannon (which is EXTREMELY inaccurate) - when compared to the ADATS it lacks the APDS belt the vehicle has and the tank killing capabilities but makes up with this thanks to its higher mobility and optics.

If you were to compare the CS/SA5 to something like the Pantsir however it would almost entirely be cons

Its too slow to get anywhere. Its so massive its impossible not to be spotted. You cannot peek behind cover, you are either exposed or not exposed

Being large isn’t something unique to the ADATS, the CS/SA5 is significantly larger than a Leopard 2 let alone a ADATS, it’s more comparable to a Maus iirc (and probably taller than it with the radar up). The acceleration for the CS/SA5 is also a bit poor but the top speed is decent.

And again. If its being judged by its performance as an ATGM slinger, then it can be 8,3 ish

I was pointing out the unique attribute the ADATS has, the missiles can function as both anti-tank and anti-air unlike all other SPAAs in-game excluding other variants of the vehicle. Last time I recalled the Striker doesn’t have a Mach 2+ capable missile which is smokeless and has proximity for destroying aerial vehicles.

So again. Why should the CS/SA5 go down to below 12.0

I’ve stated everything in the original post, read it.

Did I also mention that the lofting for the FB-10/A makes it so it has like a 2km deadzone? Probably more, I need to check this

[Morvran]

@TPS_Hydra

not to the extent of the IRIS-T

@TPS_Hydra

If you were to compare the CS/SA5 to something like the Pantsir however it would almost entirely be cons

Again this just sounds like the Pantsir and IRIS-T SLM should move up in BR and not the CS/SA5 move down. It still sound stronger to me than the SPAA at 11.7 and below AND still more than capable of easily dealing with any CAS below 12.0.

Top tier is compressed enough without making compression worse. As soon as AHEAD gets fixed, assuming its not just a latency issue, you would become basically immune to any weapon fired at you.

@TPS_Hydra

I was pointing out the unique attribute the ADATS has, the missiles can function as both anti-tank and anti-air unlike all other SPAAs in-game excluding other variants of the vehicle. Last time I recalled the Striker doesn’t have a Mach 2+ capable missile which is smokeless and has proximity for destroying aerial vehicles.

People use the ADATS ability to in theory kill tanks as an excuse for an SPAA weaker than those found at 10.7/11.0 to be at 11.7.

Imo. It should not even be something mentioned. Is it an SPAA? Judge its performance for dealing with enemy aircraft. ADATS can only deal with slow moving fixed wings like A-10s and Su-39 or Helis. It can do nothing against an Su-30 firing KH-38MTs. At least in theory, the CS/SA5 can shoot them down with AHEAD.

@TPS_Hydra

Did I also mention that the lofting for the FB-10/A makes it so it has like a 2km deadzone? Probably more, I need to check this

This is basically everything. In fact, I cant think of a single SAM that doesnt have this issue… Except maybe Pantsir? Good thing youve got a gun

[TPS_Hydra]

I’m just going to say this:

The FB-10A loses a insane amount of speed at around 7km and is entirely sub-sonic at around 7.5km - 8km (straight static target), it has shorter range than the ADATS and the CS/SA5 has a insanely inaccurate main armament which makes intercepting munition with your rotary cannon nearly impossible (as present in the video attached with the original post, excluding AHEAD).

Last time I checked the ADATS has an effective range of around 10km and the Osa-AKM of around 10.3km - the fact a 10.3 SPAA has longer effective range than this 12.0 piece of trash is genuinely hilarious.

The real effective range of the FB-10A against a supersonic target is around 5km to 6km…

War Thunder CS/SA5 Test2

[Morvran]

@TPS_Hydra

The FB-10A loses a insane amount of speed at around 7km and is entirely sub sonic at around 7.5km - 8km (straight static target), it has shorter range than the ADATS

I dont even bother firing the ADATS at any jet further than 6km away unless its super slow like a drone or A-10. Even then a hit is rare against anything that can turn.

Which is why I usually just bring the Stormer HVM. Equally effective against helis, but is actually good on the ground

@TPS_Hydra

the CS/SA5 has a insanely inaccurate main armament which makes intercepting munition with your rotary cannon nearly impossible (as present in the video attached with the original post, excluding AHEAD).

So again? Submit a bug report?

@TPS_Hydra

Last time I checked the ADATS has an effective range of around 10km

Only against helis. Against aircraft other than subsonic and very slow stuff… Its more like 6 maybe 7km if you are lucky.

[TPS_Hydra]

So again? Submit a bug report?

The inaccuracy of the gun is intended, the extreme lofting of the missile is intended (as shown in the developer server) and the small proximity radius for the missile is also intended. The bug with the missile failing to switch between DL+IOG and Tracking IR is indeed a bug however and would fix some of the problems.

Its more like 6 maybe 7km if you are lucky

So… Exactly the same as the CS/SA5? That’s why I don’t consider the CS/SA5 as a superior vehicle than to the ADATS.

[Morvran]

So?

Submit a bug report for the DL+IOG.

@TPS_Hydra

So… Exactly the same as the CS/SA5? That’s why I don’t consider the CS/SA5 as a superior vehicle than to the ADATS.

the difference. The FB-10A are FnF. You can pop out of cover, fire at something (or even multiple somethings) and get back into cover again. ADATS? Has to sit there and guide it in. It also cant shoot down incoming weapons

Though a missile with a stat card range of 18km, should at least be effective out to 10-12km. have you actually tested it against something that far out?

[TPS_Hydra]

The FB-10A are FnF

You can flare/countermeasure them btw, the FB-10/A aren’t as reliable as you think they are (I’ve had Eurofighters simply flare them countless of times).

have you actually tested it against something that far out?

The furthest I’ve gotten the missile is around 12km but that’s against a slow flying drone, the furthest I’ve gotten a mobile aircraft was around 8km and the effective range I’ve gotten with the FB-10A is around 5km to 8(ish)km.

The guns are a absolute joke though, AHEAD works decently well but doesn’t do sh*t against ground targets so if a MBT or light vehicle is pushing you, just pray.

I’ve also had the missile straight up fail on me, like 40% to 50% of the time lmao - still prefer the HQ-17 for destroying aircraft (which sits at 11.3)

The TY-90s also feel more reliable funnily enough, the FB-10/A were implemented extremely poorly.

[Morvran]

@TPS_Hydra

You can flare/countermeasure them btw, the FB-10A aren’t as reliable as you think they are (I’ve had Eurofighters simply flare them countless of times).

Right? So?

Its not as good as the IRIS-T SLM in that regard. Still doesnt mean they are easier to defeat than SACLOS missiles with no range or that it should move down. Just sounds like Other 12.0 SAMs need to move up.

@TPS_Hydra

The furthest I’ve gotten the missile is around 12km but that’s against a slow flying drone, the furthest I’ve gotten a mobile aircraft was around 8km and the effective range I’ve gotten with the FB-10A is around 5km to 8(ish)km.

So it can threaten things further out. Sounds like they need to buff the seeker performance if that is possible.

@TPS_Hydra

The guns are a absolute joke though, AHEAD works decently well but doesn’t do sh*t against ground targets so if a MBT or light vehicle is pushing you, just pray.

Again. I still dont entirely understand this idea that SPAAs meant for shooting down aircraft, should be competitive as top tier IFVs as well. Otherwise they need stop being given an SP cost of 70.

@TPS_Hydra

I’ve also had the missile straight up fail on me, like 40% to 50% of the time lmao - still prefer the HQ-17 for destroying aircraft (which sits at 11.3)

HQ-17 is just chronically under BRed, it should be at least 11.7, if not 12.0 alongside the IT0.

@TPS_Hydra

The TY-90s also feel more reliable funnily enough, the FB-10/A were implemented extremely poorly.

So Again. Sounds like its better to buff the CS/SA5 than lower it to a BR where it would be OP

[TPS_Hydra]

Let’s just agree to disagree, it was nice debating with you though

[Pheonix_RX01]

Its such a shame how terrible it is since it looks so good, both this and the Elde need to either be replaced or fixed and had their BR’s dropped they have no right being anywhere near the SLM. This update was so clearly rushed it hurts.

Also as a side note prior to the CS/SA5 getting datalink i felt terrible for flying my AJS37 and turning the engine off and dropping 8x 250kg bombs on it… it fired a missile but rolled left and it flew off into the ground. So far its missiles seem so drunk when i have fought against them.

[DevilO6]

@TPS_Hydra

This isn’t even mentioning the broken radar on the vehicle (which may affect all SPAAs) as locking onto multiple things is a genuine challenge, they’ve either broken TWS radar cycling for this thing or all SPAAs which have TWS in general which just adds more fuel to the fire.

All of them.

[pooqich]

@TPS_Hydra

Funny video I made showcasing some of the issues with the CS/SA5

gold

[Xuе]

@TPS_Hydra

the missiles are broken and have been so for weeks

The IRIS-T Missile’s are extremely broken aswell. So that makes absolutely no sense to even bring up, the CS/SA5 is good for what it is. Its the best SPAA in the game to intercept munition and is decently good at killing planes.

If u move the CS/SA5 down its just going to terrorize in a downtier.

[Goofiedoofye]

@TPS_Hydra

The lofting for the FB-10/A is also ridiculous, it makes it so engaging targets within 1.5km nearly impossible as the missile ALWAYS lofts before hitting something whether that be a munition or vehicle. This in turn makes destroying UAV drones nearly impossible as you’ve got a extremely inaccurate main armament and borderline useless missiles.

I think you have a big spinny thing on your vehicle so destroying air targets within 2km shouldnt be an issue.

[TheMightySardine]

You what,HQ-17 at 12.0? That thing is still Tor with different radar and slightly longer burning missile. You can outpull it by doing barrel roll,have giant smoke trail,and due to vertical launch,you cant shoot planes closer than 2km,on top of being taller than most houses. Flarakrad with its two VT-1s is superior to HQ-17. ADATS aswell with the smokeless missile and no rwr pinging.

[TPS_Hydra]

You mean the rotary cannon which doesn’t actually work as intended? The same rotary cannon with God awful accuracy? Nice one

“But-t-t-t you’ve got AHEAD 😢”

[TPS_Hydra]

The IRIS-T Missile’s are extremely broken aswell. So that makes absolutely no sense to even bring up, the CS/SA5 is good for what it is

Most SPAAs in-game have one of their main features broken whether it’s the missiles and radar as for the CS/SA5 or just radar for the HQ-17, a broken IRIS-T still outshines the CS/SA5 in almost every metric for surface to air engagements - that’s not even mentioning that the Tracking (IR guidance) for the FB-10/A is broken…

The CS/SA5 has a effective range of around 6(ish)km whilst the IRIS-T doubles or even triples this lmao

[Pheonix_RX01]

Yeah AHEAD is a total waste of time as an ammo, it sucks on just about every vehicle its on (still waiting for the CV90’s to get their 90’s era programmable round which is similar to AHEAD.)

From my limited use of AHEAD it seems to have a cone vs the sphere that other HE-VT rounds have, i know some vehicles have cone shaped HE-VT now like the CV’s but id like to see gaijin properly model AHEAD so that its doing the damage it should.