The CS/SA5 Is MID

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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The title basically says everything which needs to be said, the CS/SA5 as a vehicle is mid and a disappointment of a vehicle, arguably worse than the EdlE 98 for surface to air engagements (which is also arguably the worst out of the new SPAAs added this update).

The CS/SA5 as of now has entirely broken missiles, the FB-10 and FB-10A are either hard locked to DL+IOG or Tracking (IR guidance) - this basically means if you launch the FB-10/A missile at a target via radar lock and the bandit goes behind cover, it will go into IOG instead of transitioning to Track IR, it functions as a worse ARH missile lmao.

The missile can also physically be outmanoeuvred by a simple roll lmao

The main armament for the CS/SA5, that being the 30mm PGZ-625 rotary cannon is also extremely inaccurate with piss poor precision, this makes it so that intercepting munition with your main armament becomes a genuine challenge unless you’ve got AHEAD equipped - which in turn massively diminishes your tank killing capabilities (you can only bring a single belt with you as well).

The lofting for the FB-10/A is also ridiculous, it makes it so engaging targets within 1.5km nearly impossible as the missile ALWAYS lofts before hitting something whether that be a munition or vehicle. This in turn makes destroying UAV drones nearly impossible as you’ve got a extremely inaccurate main armament and borderline useless missiles.

This isn’t even mentioning the broken radar on the vehicle (which may affect all SPAAs) as locking onto multiple things is a genuine challenge, they’ve either broken TWS radar cycling for this thing or all SPAAs which have TWS in general which just adds more fuel to the fire.

The CS/SA5 is basically a glorified LAV-AD without the tank killing potential (due to missing the rocket pod), this thing either needs to be moved down or be given something which warrants the BR of 12.0…

Yes, I’m aware like 60% of the issues listed above are bugs, attention needs to be brought up about them however or they’ll never be fixed

Forgot to mention, the damage on the FB-10/A is a sick joke, I’ve had KA-52s tank 4 missiles and kill me anyways right after, the proximity of the missile is also ass and the lofting is a forced thing regardless of range.

Solution? Move the vehicle down to 11.3/11.7, fix all the bugs listed above, increase the accuracy of the 30mm rotary cannon with the addition of additional penetration, introduce APDS or APFSDS as a small belt like found on the Gepard/PGZ09, nerf the lofting of the missile and provide the FB-10/A with the ability to guide itself via SACLOS if the sufficient information on it is provided of course (heard it could do that in real life, may be wrong/disputed).

Funny video I made showcasing some of the issues with the CS/SA5

Fat upload, if it lags then forget about watching it

The CS/SA5 is fun overall anyways and I’ve enjoyed it, not because it’s good but because how goofy it is lol

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10/10 meme post.

which is sad ngl, that thing on paper looks geniunely terrifying and would be the main selling point of CS/SA5 for me.

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Sure, when all CAS in the game also moves down by 0.7.
Your post’s rage bait is wild.

It’s already correctly BR’d for what CAS is at its BR.

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It’s already correctly BR’d

💀

Please stop ragebaiting me, if you honestly think the CS/SA5 is correctly balanced at 12.0 then you must be insane - it almost physically can’t intercept things with its main armament (excluding AHEAD), the missiles are broken and have been so for weeks and some/all of the stats for the most part are placeholder.

Pantsir/IRIS-T counterpart my ass

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Is top tier compressed?

Yes. It has no buissness being the same BR as the IRIS-T SLM.

But likewise, do you really think it belongs at the same BR as the ADATS at 11.7? Or Otomatic at 11.3?

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But likewise, do you really think it belongs at the same BR as the ADATS at 11.7? Or Otomatic at 11.3?

I don’t think you’ve seen the CS/SA5 being tested before, it has the highest loss of speed amongst the new SPAAs and their respective “best” missiles, the FB-10/A can only effectively reach up to 8km and has no anti-tank killing capabilities unlike the ADATS.

Last time I checked the ADATS has a large belt containing APDS, has a missile which can penetrate up to 900mm of RHA and effective armour against 12.7mm iirc - the CS/SA5 has none of this lol.

Or Otomatic at 11.3?

The OTOMATIC is more of a exception, I’ve also been advocating for it to be moved down for years, it isn’t a good example to use.

What I basically said in the post was that with its current state, the CS/SA5 should be moved down to 11.3/11.7, it can remain at 12.0 if everything I recommended was fixed

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So it has a very good gun with AHEAD for dealing with incoming weapons and a FnF missile with better range than the ADATS.

Oh no… Anyway.

Its an SPAA, and weaker than most 8.3 ATGM slingers. Why people fixate on the ability for the ADATS to spam 8x missiles into something and maybe kill them is beyond me.

Especially when most top tier guns on things can do about the same kind of damage.

Only the US ADATS has a Gun. Also at 11.7 is the Canadian ADATS with… No Gun, at all.

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So it has a very good gun with AHEAD

Have you even seen the video I’ve attached to the post? You can clearly see an AGM-65D Maverick flying through my sea of lead - you can further notice it flying through my tracers, it wasn’t bad aim…

Sure, you can use AHEAD but you’ll sacrifice your penetration for it, 37mm of RHA penetration is not adequate for self defence against ground units - guess what? The Pantsir doesn’t need to do this type of sacrifice as its guns actually work as intended.

Its an SPAA, and weaker than most 8.3 ATGM slingers. Why people fixate on the ability for the ADATS to spam 8x missiles into something and maybe kill them is beyond me

It’s a SPAA with the ability to rampage tanks, this isn’t something you simply overlook. 900mm of RHA penetration is no laughing matter, I have BOTH American and British ADATS and those missiles can and will be used effectively by a good player.

Especially when most top tier guns on things can do about the same kind of damage

Most SPAAs can’t do what the ADATS can do when it comes to self defence, this is something entirely unique to the ADATS (missile wise) and again isn’t something to overlook.

Only the US ADATS has a Gun. Also at 11.7 is the Canadian ADATS with… No Gun, at all

I was referring to the ADATS not the ADATS (M113), the M113 is borderline worse but it’s not like it should move down to 11.3, it’s fine as it is.

This is also ignoring the fact that the ADATS doesn’t give a RWR launch warning, has a smokeless motor and can actually intercept things with its gun (with questionable results however, still not as worse as the CS/SA5)

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So AHEAD is a little buggy? Why does the CS/SA5 need a BR drop? Why not just submit a bug report?

Rampage?

Its too slow to get anywhere. Its so massive its impossible not to be spotted. You cannot peek behind cover, you are either exposed or not exposed.

The missile dont do consistant damage, It usually takes multiple to disable a target the missiles spiral like mad.

And again. If its being judged by its performance as an ATGM slinger, then it can be 8,3 ish?

Definetly weaker than the Striker.

and again? So it can spam missiles at a tank. Great Would still prefer an SPAA that could deal with something other than a heli as you know. Its an SPAA. Not an ATGM slinger.

Still cant wait to never ever have to use the ADATS again if/when it gets replaced. If the CS/SA5 should be 11.3. Then ADATS should be 10.7.

I literally use the Stormer HVM and not the ADATS because the HVM is just better

So again. Why should the CS/SA5 go down to below 12.0?

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So AHEAD is a little buggy? Why does the CS/SA5 need a BR drop? Why not just submit a bug report?

Because a bug free CS/SA5 would still underperform when compared to its competitors? I hope you do realise this is a IR slinging SPAA, not to the extent of the IRIS-T but much closer in line to the LAV-AD/Stinger. It doesn’t have contrast lock like the Strela and doesn’t have SACLOS like the ADATS.

You cannot correct for error, if the missile loses lock then that’s it, the missile is wasted - you can’t manually adjust it with you mouse.

The vehicle is more in line with something like the ADATS or FlaRakRad performance wise, it has far inferior missiles than to the FlaRakRad in both speed, range and manoeuvrability but has more total missiles and a rotary cannon (which is EXTREMELY inaccurate) - when compared to the ADATS it lacks the APDS belt the vehicle has and the tank killing capabilities but makes up with this thanks to its higher mobility and optics.

If you were to compare the CS/SA5 to something like the Pantsir however it would almost entirely be cons

Its too slow to get anywhere. Its so massive its impossible not to be spotted. You cannot peek behind cover, you are either exposed or not exposed

Being large isn’t something unique to the ADATS, the CS/SA5 is significantly larger than a Leopard 2 let alone a ADATS, it’s more comparable to a Maus iirc (and probably taller than it with the radar up). The acceleration for the CS/SA5 is also a bit poor but the top speed is decent.

And again. If its being judged by its performance as an ATGM slinger, then it can be 8,3 ish

I was pointing out the unique attribute the ADATS has, the missiles can function as both anti-tank and anti-air unlike all other SPAAs in-game excluding other variants of the vehicle. Last time I recalled the Striker doesn’t have a Mach 2+ capable missile which is smokeless and has proximity for destroying aerial vehicles.

So again. Why should the CS/SA5 go down to below 12.0

I’ve stated everything in the original post, read it.

Did I also mention that the lofting for the FB-10/A makes it so it has like a 2km deadzone? Probably more, I need to check this

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Again this just sounds like the Pantsir and IRIS-T SLM should move up in BR and not the CS/SA5 move down. It still sound stronger to me than the SPAA at 11.7 and below AND still more than capable of easily dealing with any CAS below 12.0.

Top tier is compressed enough without making compression worse. As soon as AHEAD gets fixed, assuming its not just a latency issue, you would become basically immune to any weapon fired at you.

People use the ADATS ability to in theory kill tanks as an excuse for an SPAA weaker than those found at 10.7/11.0 to be at 11.7.

Imo. It should not even be something mentioned. Is it an SPAA? Judge its performance for dealing with enemy aircraft. ADATS can only deal with slow moving fixed wings like A-10s and Su-39 or Helis. It can do nothing against an Su-30 firing KH-38MTs. At least in theory, the CS/SA5 can shoot them down with AHEAD.

This is basically everything. In fact, I cant think of a single SAM that doesnt have this issue… Except maybe Pantsir? Good thing youve got a gun

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I’m just going to say this:

The FB-10A loses a insane amount of speed at around 7km and is entirely sub-sonic at around 7.5km - 8km (straight static target), it has shorter range than the ADATS and the CS/SA5 has a insanely inaccurate main armament which makes intercepting munition with your rotary cannon nearly impossible (as present in the video attached with the original post, excluding AHEAD).

Last time I checked the ADATS has an effective range of around 10km and the Osa-AKM of around 10.3km - the fact a 10.3 SPAA has longer effective range than this 12.0 piece of trash is genuinely hilarious.

The real effective range of the FB-10A against a supersonic target is around 5km to 6km…

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I dont even bother firing the ADATS at any jet further than 6km away unless its super slow like a drone or A-10. Even then a hit is rare against anything that can turn.

Which is why I usually just bring the Stormer HVM. Equally effective against helis, but is actually good on the ground

So again? Submit a bug report?

Only against helis. Against aircraft other than subsonic and very slow stuff… Its more like 6 maybe 7km if you are lucky.

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So again? Submit a bug report?

The inaccuracy of the gun is intended, the extreme lofting of the missile is intended (as shown in the developer server) and the small proximity radius for the missile is also intended. The bug with the missile failing to switch between DL+IOG and Tracking IR is indeed a bug however and would fix some of the problems.

Its more like 6 maybe 7km if you are lucky

So… Exactly the same as the CS/SA5? That’s why I don’t consider the CS/SA5 as a superior vehicle than to the ADATS.

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So?

Submit a bug report for the DL+IOG.

the difference. The FB-10A are FnF. You can pop out of cover, fire at something (or even multiple somethings) and get back into cover again. ADATS? Has to sit there and guide it in. It also cant shoot down incoming weapons

Though a missile with a stat card range of 18km, should at least be effective out to 10-12km. have you actually tested it against something that far out?

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The FB-10A are FnF

You can flare/countermeasure them btw, the FB-10/A aren’t as reliable as you think they are (I’ve had Eurofighters simply flare them countless of times).

have you actually tested it against something that far out?

The furthest I’ve gotten the missile is around 12km but that’s against a slow flying drone, the furthest I’ve gotten a mobile aircraft was around 8km and the effective range I’ve gotten with the FB-10A is around 5km to 8(ish)km.

The guns are a absolute joke though, AHEAD works decently well but doesn’t do sh*t against ground targets so if a MBT or light vehicle is pushing you, just pray.

I’ve also had the missile straight up fail on me, like 40% to 50% of the time lmao - still prefer the HQ-17 for destroying aircraft (which sits at 11.3)

The TY-90s also feel more reliable funnily enough, the FB-10/A were implemented extremely poorly.

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Right? So?

Its not as good as the IRIS-T SLM in that regard. Still doesnt mean they are easier to defeat than SACLOS missiles with no range or that it should move down. Just sounds like Other 12.0 SAMs need to move up.

So it can threaten things further out. Sounds like they need to buff the seeker performance if that is possible.

Again. I still dont entirely understand this idea that SPAAs meant for shooting down aircraft, should be competitive as top tier IFVs as well. Otherwise they need stop being given an SP cost of 70.

HQ-17 is just chronically under BRed, it should be at least 11.7, if not 12.0 alongside the IT0.

So Again. Sounds like its better to buff the CS/SA5 than lower it to a BR where it would be OP

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Let’s just agree to disagree, it was nice debating with you though

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Its such a shame how terrible it is since it looks so good, both this and the Elde need to either be replaced or fixed and had their BR’s dropped they have no right being anywhere near the SLM. This update was so clearly rushed it hurts.

Also as a side note prior to the CS/SA5 getting datalink i felt terrible for flying my AJS37 and turning the engine off and dropping 8x 250kg bombs on it… it fired a missile but rolled left and it flew off into the ground. So far its missiles seem so drunk when i have fought against them.

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All of them.

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