To start with, I do agree that for a long time cas has been overpowered. However, the blame for cas isn’t going to solve much of the balancing issue. Throughout this year, the hate towards cas has ruined many proper discussion on balancing. Whenever people say that the pantsir-s1 was op compared to other spaa, many people would just jump out and say “cas player crying”, and ignore the fact that people are just asking for every nation to get a pantsir equivalent. The same problem applies for the request of AGM-65 buffs, or questioning for counterparts to KH-38 because people don’t care if you are flying a su30 or a F16C-they just label you as a cas player and therefore equally evil. China only has access to 3 tv agm that can’t lock vehicles above 6km, Sweden only has a 2 ir+4 agm/aam loadout. And yet all these aircraft have to fight against Sam with 15 km range like planes with kh-38. On the flip side, spaa is still massively imbalanced. Elde 98’s missile struggles to even fly to 10km, cs/sa5 still has a buggy trajectory and radar, Israeli spyder is also massively bugged also, and when other nations get very powerful Sam like buk-m3 or aster-30, people never question wether adding in such powerful sam to a few nations only is a good thing. Because gaijin is likely to give cas better weapons which allows them to counter current sam systems, and by then, nations with bad sam suffer again(before you say “well gaijin can just give these nations more powerful sam systems when that happens”, considering the fact that Italy was still using otomatic while Russia was using pantsir so I doubt that Gaijin would ensure any balance). At the end of the day, it comes down to the balancing of nations, not just CAS. I play both cas and spaa, and I have no idea why people claim “cas player” as a group that deserves to be hanged. Cas is just a vehicle among a complete lineup. While many players do play in aim to spawn cas, it’s mainly gaijin’s fault for not balancing it, not the players.
I concur.
I like CAS, but respect the situation that the ground forces can be in.
Another core trait is that typically all aircraft, no matter what, is classed as “CAS” and it doesnt matter if it is actually OP or has 0 A2G ability at all. Its always “OP CAS”.
It makes conversations very hard when its just clumped together.
Some BRs have aircraft that are overpowered. But those same BRs probably have underpowered CAS as well.
Likewise some BRs have very good SPAAs but they might only be for 1 or 2 nations ,leaving everyone else struggling.
Strong SPAA vs weak CAS. doesnt mean all SPAA is OP
Strong CAS vs weak SPAA doesnt mean all CAS is OP.
Another honourable mention. In my opinion. Half the issue regarding “CAS” is that Strike aircraft and especially helis are forced to play in GRB/GSB for any half decent gameplay, which is a rather large shame at the moment. Id love to play helis in a decent Heli gamemode, but it doesnt currently exist
The balancing with helis is even worse. Russia got access to mini kh38 that can one-hit kill and US got 16 agm-179 to shoot around while dircm protects them from any ir weapon. Meanwhile 3 nations are still forced to play hellfires while Germany and China are suffering from fnf missiles that hits like a firecracker. Spike er is also very buggy also. Many Russian players still pretend that LMUR is equivalent to spikes, cm502 or AGM-179 because they are all fnf missiles
Coincidentally, same applies to CAS ;) Whenever it was MiG-27 on release, F-16s on release, strike drones on release (god what a circus that update was), Kh-38MTs, or LMUR/ CM502s. All these additions completly outclassed (and some still do) then in-game AA systems.
See above. The new gen SAMs were added an are already absolutely helpless against Mi-28NM/Z-10ME - ARHs cant target them whatsoever, and their LDIRCCM counters infinite number of missiles in a bubble around them, so you cant even overwhelm them.
One thing you also mentioned only in passing is that these systems arent added all at once but are gradually rolled out. This creates an imbalance, and this imbalance was heavily in favor of CAS for a while now, at least regarding to top tier. It then shifted hard in favor of AA with SLM for exactly one patch, and now the game is imbalanced again shifted in favor of CAS.
Im just gonna add my two cents and say that in my personal opinion, the game balance should be balanced in favor of SAMs. Ground units other than AAs more often than not cant do anything against some of the more powerful CAS options. Team with 15 tanks will lose against team with 14 tanks and 1 CAS plane. Team with 15 SAMs will lose to team with 14 tanks and 1 CAS plane. SAMs need to be able to protect their team against CAS.
The game in regards to top tier is sprinting towards the situation where no one will be playing tanks for CAS to bomb, since everyone wants to jump into CAS plane.
I do agree that it is gaijins fault, but to shift the blame entirely on gaijin would be dishonest to ground players.
Some people play CAS for the sole purpose of destroying real players with CAS.
That whole thread was a circus (“I cant bomb real players with dumb rockets on my mig-29, SPAA needs to be nerfed”), but this one sentence lives rent free in my head.
I agree that many toxic cas players also exist and ground battle should focus on ground battle more. However, I do wanna repeat my statement of “you can’t just classify all cas as “cas”.” Su30 has 6 kh38(Mach 2 with over 100 kg of explosive) and 6 r-77-1, JAS-39C has 4 agm65(Mach 0.9 with buggy damage modeling) and J-11B has 3 KH29(6 KM vehicle lock range), so they are vastly different in terms of balance and how powerful they are against spaa. Also, I am curious to ask why you think that tusk force shifted towards cas players more. The only think I can think of is LMUR and AGM-179, which is pretty strong combined with dircm and lack of rotor rcs. Spice 250 is also a thing, but you won’t be seeing Israel player in 9 out of 10 games. However, Aster and Buk are major improvements and the new spawn point system basically bans players from spawning a 2nd cas in game. At the very end, I would like to clarify-I am not stating wether cas or sam should be more buffed, I am saying that all nations should get equivalent in both cas and spaa and the cas hate is preventing actual rational debates. I believe that it’s purely gaijin’s fault. Just like t80bvm over merkava, most players have the natural desire to play overpowered vehicles. As developers, it’s completely gaijin’s responsibility to balance them, which, they are not doing and actively ignoring all the complaints
i suggest that gaijin needs to give cas to everyone end think they can do a sortie but in reality it would be rigged from the start and get killed by aa as soon as they spawn so i can farm some sl
jokes aside yeah it need balance for all sides of this
How it feels to play GAB and completely avoid 90% of CAS discussion
Isn’t this precisely Gaijin’s discrimination against certain factions, while intentionally provoking division and conflict among players?
There would be no CAS hate if there was a Tank Only mode
CAS is a CAS to ground unit other than SPAA, or IFV with IRST. Abrams will die to iron bomb dropped by WW2 Mosquito the same as to laser guided bomb dropped by Tornado,there is no difference in that regard.
but their balance doesnt revolve just around SPAA x CAS interaction. Their balance revolves also around other ground units x CAS interaction.
these two are precisely it.
Yes, Buk and Aster might be powerful, but theyre ARH terminal - with current ingame engine radar signature modeling, they cannot even target helicopters properly, not accounting for multipath. So, the only missiles that can reach them are IR terminal - SLM, 9X or Python 5. However the LDIRCCM, instead of having any kind of limitation, be it coverage or number of missiles it can counter, currently works as 360° force field being able to counter infinite amount of missiles, making them immune even if you spam 8x IR missiles at them. That kinda blows, dont you think?
Absolutely, I agree.
you even said it yourself, there are also toxic CAS players that dont help the situation.
Imagine ppl ignoring every plane just bcs f58 exists under a balance thread
Imagine ppl ignoring every 11.0-12.0 flying thing just bcs 38mt/ lmur exists
lmao.
It’s just dumb to say l2a7 strong applies to ariete.
Also around heli and CAP. Too messed up all around cold war brs xD
Imagine my surprise when I see peoples lineups all the time, not having a single SPAA…
Yet people will always decry about how bad CAS is. xD
How it feels to be an Air main and never have to deal with how trash GAB and GRB are.
On a serious note, every time someone talks about tank gameplay it seems like they’re a suicidal husk, So my question is, why do you people even touch this garbage if it’s borderline self harm?
The shame is that aircraft get nerfed because of GRB
The vocally aggrieved will exagerate and even compound the issue by already being defeated before a single plane even spawns.
Then many compound it by ignoring SPAA being available anyways.
Part of the reason I left and nuked my OG account years ago was because I felt the game was no longer centered on aircrafts and ground modes were taking more and more space.
Sad to see that dynamic has rooted itself firmly in the direction the game’s taking and most discussions are now about Ground modes.
Yeah… Many players seem to think the only one that should matter is GRB. Seen more than a few state that air and naval should just be deleted entirely
Idk I enjoy ground personally
Why do I already know what their statcards look like? lol
Good for you! I also liked it at first but the lack of agency and the fact it’s quite easy to be good in GRB made me lose any and all interest I had for tanks, there’s just very little depth to tank gameplay.