The Type 61 and ST-A tanks are smaller caliber than the Israeli M51 tank, but are otherwise similar in specifications.
The BR of the Type 61 and ST-A tanks is 6.7 at RB, while the BR of the M51 is 6.0. This is obviously wrong.
I think the BR of the Type 61 and ST-A tanks should be the same as the M51 or lowered from 6.7.
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Far superior mobility, APHE and ST-A3 gets an autoloader
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Bait used to be believable.
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Never cook again pls
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Hmm? Nah they’re fine where they are. They’re in as good place a place as can be right now and there’s no need to move them.
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It’s the other way around: the M-51 should be moved up to 6.7 due to having very good HEAT-FS on a comparable hull.
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JSDF tanks fights even against Godzilla, so let the BR as it is.
W H E E Z E
The ST series as a whole and Type 61 kick the absolute dog out the M-51 in every regard with the only exception being frontal armor defensive capability against auto cannons.
They fire HEATFS instead of regular HEAT, which has far better velocity and armor penetration perimeters. The fact that the M-51 uses 105mm over 90mm is a minimal point in that regard as the OCC 105 FL - Which is REGULAR HEAT btw - is simply inferior to the M431 and even M438.
Let’s not forget that the M-51 has absolutely horrible gun handling coupled with it’s awful mobility. Unless the M-51 is already posted up in a position or the ST/Type 61 player is awful, the ST/Type 61 will always win in a general " see first, shoot first " scenario.
It’s the afternoon but it’s way too early for this. You’ve gotta be trolling lol.
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Velocity, sure. Penetration isn’t even close and the 105mm will have more post pen. And on top of that, the 105mm somehow has the same reload rate as the 90mm despite weighing almost twice as much.
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HEATFS has better pen parameters because of better shell trajectory compared to standard HEAT. Post pen between the two in-game isn’t much different so it’s mostly an irrelevant point.
Also, the ST/Type 61 have better reloads than the M-51in-game. Not sure where you’re getting your info saying they’re the same.
I don’t understand the thought process of its creation Giant gun and then only fires heat he and smoke not a single kinetic shell
What a Waste of something that looks like a good Gun
Nah, it’s pretty balanced IMO
From what I found, the French army were only relying on that HEAT shell at the time so the rifling of the gun was given a slow spinning rate. This made it unsuitable for firing APDS.
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ty
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Both the wiki and in-game say the top reload when aced is 7.5s, for both Type 61 and M-51.
Shell trajectory makes no difference, it’s a fraction of a degree which can’t compensate for the straight up better penetration on the 105mm.
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Aced crew is a nuanced argument as most folks aren’t putting that much time or GE into acing crew for any of the mentioned vehicles.
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It’s more than a fraction of a degree, and less than 100mm of extra pen is negated in an uptier where it’s facing armor that the HEATFS has an easier time more getting reliable penetrations because of better shell trajectory.
Honestly I’d be fine with moving it up if it was reclassed as a TD and not a medium tank. Like the M36B1. I think it should’ve been a TD from the start honestly, as that designation is closer to it’s actual role by the time it came into service (the mid-1950s), as by then Israel already had Centurions for the medium tank role. It would also somewhat discourage people from using it as a “tank” tank, which it is horribly unsuited for
Meanwhile, does anyone remember is M26?
Even down to the same turret rotation speed.
How do you figure that an 800m/s velocity round is somehow gonna impact tanks in a way that it loses half of its pen, but a 1200m/s shell that can’t come down onto angled armor to get a better impact angle, with lower penetration to start with, is somehow better?
The M-51 is simply better in the gun department.
edit: I know I’ve SEEN people do the math here on the forum, and even for bigger differences in trajectory and speed it’s rarely more than 1 degree of difference on the impact angle. And 800m/s is already pretty good.
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Redesignation is fine and all, but moving it up just puts it closer to tanks that have stabilizers, LRFs and armor with chemical protection depending on how much you uptier it.
It legitimately is fine exactly where it sits BR-wise right now. It does not need to move up nor down.