Good point. 'Though I’m still largely in favour of new nations.
1 Like
If they have an absolute majority of copy-paste (55% and higher), then the suggestion could simply leave out some planes by deleting the obscure C&P ones and leaving only the most popular ones (like the BF109 of hungary). Like I said before, I’m even in favour of the Soviet(/Hungarian) jets, even if they somewhat break the matchmaking in sim.
Yes. Read my text.
I couldn’t be bothered at the time, even if what you’re stating is NOT my opinion, as I want both the C&P and the unique stuff, but I deemed your suggestion bloated with C&P, even with the most lenient use of C&P I could manage to get away with (like saying the MÁVAG Héja I is unique, even if it is a Re2000 modification). My opinion is obviously more nuanced than ‘I’m a Purist! ONLY UNIQUE STUFF’, lol.
Let me give you some nations that could do this easily (more could be added, but just as in the OP, these are some examples, duh):
Argentina
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
Chile
Netherlands
Norway
Romania
Switzerland
Yugoslavia
They are allowed to use C&P. I literally said so numerous times. Just not as a majority (a sub tree of 12 planes is enough for some small nations defensive-industry wise, it doesn’t need to be 30+ planes).
Then please just leave that out, it only invites more aggression on the forums. Not everything is Hate.
2 Likes
So you’re saying you would have supported my suggestion if I would have used less copy-paste? But where exactly was the copy-paste excessive? I tried to use the minimum, while still filling gaps, as stated in the description.
Let’s not pretend that Hungary somehow caused this issue. Sim was flooded with copy-pastes long before Hungary got added.
I did, I was just clarifying.
It would have helped.
Just say which ones are unnecessary in your opinion. I added each one for a reason.
I thought you would be like Il Segnor Regio…
Netherlands? Yugoslavia? 10 completely unique and indigenous aircraft designs that were actually built and flown? Maybe just.
Romania? 10? Maybe if you count each and every sub-variant of the IAR 80/81 as a separate aircraft, but if not, then no.
Argentina, Austria, Brazil? 10 completely unique and indigenous aircraft designs that were actually built and flown? I doubt that. Also, considering none of these had any (or barely any) aircraft designs from the interwar period and WW2, it would be impossible to make these into normal subtrees, unless you start at like rank VI or something!
Belgium, Chile, Norway, Switzerland? 10 completely unique and indigenous aircraft designs that were actually built and flown? No, I highly doubt that. Especially for Chile, when I see Chilean Thunder spamming every single copy paste Chilean used vehicle into the suggestions. And again, what would they have for the interwar and WW2 period? These subtrees would start at like rank V?
Ok, so you want maximum indigenous stuff and minimum copy-paste stuff, and a small tree overall.
1 Like
FMA D.21 1929
FMA Ae M.O. 1 1932
FMA Ae M.B. 1 1935
FMA Ae M.B. 2 1935
FMA I.Ae 21 1943
FMA I.Ae 22 1944
FMA I.Ae 23 1945
FMA I.Ae 24 1946
FMA I.Ae 30 1946
FMA I.Ae 27 1947
Here you have ten.
Although in my opinion MO 1 and I.Ae 23 would be very weak (perhaps, reserve, event gift)
1 Like
I agree and would also like to defend the addition of “copy-paste” vehicles in said trees.
Not every country has had a dominant defense industry throughout their history. Pretty much every country except the superpowers of US and Russia have relied heavily on imported vehicles at some point in history. These vehicles played a critical role in the military history of their nation.
War Thunder is at its core a military vehicle simulator that prides itself on realism and historical accuracy. While Gaijin does sometimes fail to meet this goal especially when it comes to game modes, it is still a core aspect of War Thunder that separates it from games like WoT which fictionalize vehicles to prevent copy-paste.
With that said, not only does adamant opposition to vehicles being in multiple trees typically come from a selfish desire to keep something overpowered to oneself or from pseudo-racism against a nation and their people and players, but it stands directly against a core element of what makes War Thunder, War Thunder. So add Poland as its own tree, and give it all the foreign vehicles it operated.
“Well, if you wanted a Firefly play Britain!” Don’t be ridiculous, I’m not playing Poland to get a Firefly. Who in their right mind goes through War Thunder trying to min-max what vehicles they get? I’m playing Poland because the exploits and history of the 1st Armoured Division is fascinating. And you know one of the vehicles that the 1st Armoured Division operated? Sherman Fireflies. “If you want better vehicles maybe your country should have made more!” First of all, you see the inherent racism in this statement, right? The insinuation that country and by extension people are somehow inferior because they didn’t spend hundreds of billions of dollars on military development? Beyond that, if you didn’t want your vehicle to be used by so many nations maybe you shouldn’t have sold it!
“I just don’t want x nation’s vehicles in y nation!” I’m sorry, but if the only reasoning to not add a vehicle to the tree of a nation that historically operated it in numbers is the nationality of the vehicles or operator, that’s just straight up racist.
Grow up and move on.
5 Likes
Copy&Paste is indeed not as bad as most claim it is, but they should in my opinion only be added it it makes sense and an indigenous (modified) version doesn’t exist.
As for what and how new nations should be introduced, that’s not up to me. Adding Poland as a (sub) nation does get my support ofc! It’s very sad that Poland hasn’t been added to the game yet (Though the dislike of Gaijin for adding separate new nations and the difficult political situation Poland has been in might have proven too large of a hurdle for GJN to overcome). Other wargames include Poland as a separate nation, which would also work fine in WT, but that’s at GJN’s discretion. Visit: Independent Polish Aviation Tech Tree (re-posted for the new forum) for a good example of a possible Polish TT.
Personally I hope to see more nations outside of the ones we currently have already (Maybe with some grouped together in an alliance/combination TT, such as BeNeLux, the Alpine tree and Scandinavia).
4 Likes
I actually have my own potential (full) Polish TT, that I haven’t made into a suggestion just because of the amount of work it would take.
I totally agree with you.
But in fact, Gaijin has no problem with inserting unnecessary c&p. When I say c&p I don’t mean vehicle modifications, I mean literal copies.
Many people ask for tons of unique vehicles when we talk about new nations and seem to completely ignore how Gaijin has implemented the latest nations (China, Israel, Finland and Hungary). Guys, there are no more US or USSR available to add, know that exclusive content will continue to arrive but it will have tons of filler c&p (Gaijin style).
2 Likes
Yeah, Gaijin is very much a fan of adding ‘efficient’ Copy-Paste. It’s an easy way for them to reach their goal of a vehicle for each nation, without even having to alter the models or sometimes not even changing skins.
3 Likes
Exactly, that is an easily verifiable fact and yet some here completely ignore it.
I have thought a lot about the issue and I believe that the best way to see future TTs would be with binational or regional TTs.
Coalition trees would have quality lineups and be easier to balance with big nations. However, Gaijin ignores this possibility, because that would imply more work and less c&p.
1 Like
And you should also consider that for each extra (sub) tech tree they add, they still want to reach their goal. (Otherwise there will be a big backlash and they’ll lose out on the profit of people that spend to get these vehicles in their ‘main’ nation).
1 Like
I’m not talking about anyone in particular, nor about this thread. I’m talking about the forum in general (even discord, facebook, reedit, etc.)
Yeah, I understood that. ;)
1 Like
I’m quite sad/annoyed that Hungary can now be grouped and compared with China, Israel and Finland for their high C+P rates. This is because Hungary (ground) could have been implemented so so much better… at present, they have just 5 unique ground vehicles and 6 copy-paste ones. I made an improved Hungarian ground subtree suggestion which includes 28 vehicles, only 4 of which are copy-paste ones, and 1 or 2 of those copy-pastes could easily be removed! That is literally just an 11% copy-paste rate with way more Hungarian tanks. Much better than how Gaijin added the Hungarian ground subtree with 55% copy-paste and less than half of the ground vehicles I demonstrated Hungary could have gotten!
Gaijin missed out most actually Hungarian tanks, and instead used more copy-paste than they needed, even though they made such a small subtree for Hungary.
2 Likes
Exactly, I agree. I think standalone tech trees are no longer feasible, and they would rely on a ton of copy-pastes, and still probably have way too few vehicles to make effective lineups. Alliances and regional tech trees, while historically and politically they could get messy, they would offer the best proportions of indigenous unique vehicles, kill the most birds with one stone (represent many countries at once), and offer great lineups and work well in-game. It may sacrifice a bit of historical teams accuracy, but that stuff is long gone and no longer feasible.
1 Like
Some alliance TT would make sense, such as BeNeLux or Swiss+Austrian, but Poland+Czech+Slovakia might get somewhat messy, though still possible. (Please no Arab TT though, their proposal is cursed on many levels)
1 Like
It’s still somewhat possible with World War events and some historical ones, but in random battles it’s pretty screwed yeah. xD
1 Like
Haha, yeah I’ve seen that, It looks very messy and I don’t think you can just put all Arab countries into a single TT, it doesn’t really make sense.
We can only hope they’ll add more unique Hungarian ground vehicles in the future. :(
1 Like
Well… gaijin being gaijin lol
that’s cool, but maybe it’s too much for a subtree
Tip: You should not consider criticism of Hungary as something personal against that nation. The problem has to do with the way the snail implemented that nation (personally tired of the Soviet filler). Prepare for criticism when the Hungarian airline arrives, because it will be 100% c&p.
1 Like