Yes, this is exactly what I was saying: they only want the numbers.
But for something that is classified, it is impossible to have primary sources.
The accepted report does provide estimates, so it’s only up to them now.
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Merkava: first time?
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Italian tree just get the block 10 they had as spare parts as the premium. The whole tree is running on vibes and positive wishes of 20 Italian mains and 50 enjoyers
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What?
1 Like
Italy bought 4 Block 10s alongsidr ADF F-16s to use as spare parts. They can have the Block 10 as a premium just like the Netz
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I thought you meant it’s on the dev-server.
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The issue with the Ariete’s armor is still there but apparently Gaijin can’t be bothered to make some new estimations, players must do their work.
Here @Roshindow was proposing to try and calculate the weight of the armor if made with steel and compare it with the weight in brochures.
The grim reality of things is that Italy just doesn’t sell enough, the community isn’t as big and loud as some others and the SubTTs weren’t interesting enough to make it more relevant(who would’ve though that a copy paste fiesta would do so uh?)
10 Likes
Haha, not really. I have been making reports on Magachs, Merkavas and the two Namers. The situation there is as bad if not worse. The devs approach to modern MBTs needs some rework, in my opinion.
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Guys idk if making noise would trigger the snail, but we need to try! GAIJIN please make improvements and make us happy!
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Remnants of Italian playerbase, assemble the legion!
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1 year and a few months have passed since the armour report’s been forwarded to the devs.
Results?
-Radio silence
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/MA8ugNxKkXQm
No further response, seemingly everything needed was supplied yet nothing changed
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Such an incredibly unfair response to a legitimate issue.
Obviously, the exact armour increases are classified information that the community either doesn’t have access to, or isn’t allowed to be publicized.
Gaijin supposedly says as much, and I qoute:
- ‘‘In War Thunder, we try to recreate real equipment as accurately as possible. […] Unfortunately, these requirements may conflict with the availability and even the openness of information. […] - the protection of modern tanks. […] We are unable to just rely on primary sources in the reports, since in most cases concerning modern MBT’s, such sources are likely to be classified.’’
-Gaijin
So which is it then? Huh?
- Either you require us to provide extremely detailed source material with exact armour values and exact percentage protection increases, which inevitably includes sources that cause legal troubles, and you then get pissy at people for publicising them in the first place.
Or:
- You require us to provide secondary sources that merely state armour improvements took place without specifics, but then these reports are dismissed for not being detailed enough and/or are ignored and sit on a pile of other armour reports gathering dust and cobweb somewhere.
Meanwhile:
Clearly and plainly states that the armour protection of the armour modules was increased to meet higher demands.
Meanwhile, in-game it doesn’t even feature a single millimetre of improvement, and any attempt to correct this mistake is brick walled.
This is just a single example, and I can provide dozens more with concrete source material to back it up with.
So not only are it’s armour improvements ignored, it’s also still based on a basic '90s Strv 122 that Gaijin has intentionally modelled horrendously poorly:
11 Likes
Thanks for another example!
Hello
I can only provide the response that follows the same logic for all protection related reports regarding modern MBTs: [Development] Reports concerning the protection of post-war combat vehicles - News - War Thunder
Suggestions are always welcome with any sources (secondary etc) with any estimated values or estimated protection. Sadly the developers do not accept reports simply on the basis armour was “improved” but with no metric or value from which to work with.
This is not a new policy but has always been the case for all modern vehicle protection related reports.
Which has resulted in us being stuck with a 2020 Leopard 2A7V that uses the armour values of a late '80s prototype Leopard 2. Oh wait! It actually doesn’t even reach that low standard because of how terribly it’s been implemented!
Not to mention the fact that multiple secondary sources have been provided that state the armour should be significantly better than it is. Obviously, these were rejected.
Curiously, the T-90M seems to have gotten plenty of armour upgrades over it’s '90s counterparts dispite the fact that it’s internal armour composition is not publicly available either:
Sources state armour improvements took place with vehicles such as the Strv 122B+, M1A2 SEP v2, etc.: Just guesstimate a darn figure! Gaijin has done it plenty of times in the past including using MBT-80 values as an approximation for the Challenger 1 as stated in the relevant Dev Blog at that time.
I’m just so tired of the double standards, and I get the feeling I’m not alone in that.
Like I’ve told you before, Gaijin is likely to see another negative review wave on Steam if this issue reaches another boiling point in the community.
13 Likes
They gonna try gaslight and playdown like before
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CL round with a 5s reload and good thermals can’t be at 11.0 at the moment. Base Ariete would sit just a single BR step below it, which isn’t fair.
In my opinion 11.3 is a much better place for it.
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Usually they just don’t respond (further).
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It is good to know that the devs are open to suggestions and reports.
On the topic of this discussion, we do in fact have a bug report on the Ariete with estimates.
Would it please be possible to know if the developers have looked at it and whether they have something planned for this Italian MBT? With the addition of the Certezza it would be a great time to know more.
5 Likes
This report has been raised again with the feedback for the current major, to bring it to attention again.
27 Likes