The 165mm HESH situation (and HESH in general)

So I’ve decided to recently come back to my HESH darlings, the AVRE and the CEV and…

…why do they do damage comparable to APCR now? If not shrapnel.

I can only assume it’s a bug but not only do they do less spalling now (hit a tank in the side center of mass, kill a loader and get slapped back) but they also seem to just never overpressure.

There is a twinkle of hope in my soul that this might just be some code overlap bug but like, come on. These are “fun” premiums and they’re both practically unplayable now because unless you hit a FIAT or something you’re not going to do anything. I’m unironically better off doing meme matches in a HE-loaded Jagdtiger.

Surely it has to be a bug and not intentional change to how HESH works overall, considering it already barely worked to begin with unless it’s the 183.

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The hesh was nerfed some time ago, based on something.

Oh, right, the “something”.
The “something” for HESH.
The “something” chosen specifically to nerf HESH, HESH’s “something”.
That “something”.

Jokes aside, we’re still talking 20+kg of TNT equivalent. I’m genuinely interested what seekrit documents they have that can justify making these things either do laughable spalling damage or fail to overpressure because the way damage calculation works is for some reason a very stupid elseif conjunction and not a double check like it is with HEAT and even APHE.

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Well, cant give you anything about that. Whatever they used is their secret, we do not have acces to that. Should it overpressure, i think so. Do i have proof, Nope. So if someone has some proof on how hesh works using primary/secondary sources, and that person makes a report it might be changed.

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Hey, nothing against you, just making light of snail and their chicanery.

And the issue with HESH really lies in the fact that for some reason it outright ignores the HE equivalent despite the fact that, as I’ve stated, both APHE and HEAT don’t do that.
In reality, the shell is just straight up HE+ with less “lateral” energy loss compared to HEAT, meaning that while it wouldn’t be as effective as straight up HE, it would still do insane overpressure/fragmentation damage, especially considering it does come in a fragmentation shell mostly on account of being unable to gun-launch a plastic charge without one.
The reason it behaves like it does right now seems like either an overlooked bug or just outright maliciousness at this point.

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I know that, i have no idea if i sounded like i took it personalny, but that is not the case.

Well, sadly without a source nothing to be done here.

Well, as i said before, they changed it based on some source, and sadly they can do it as the devs, and we as players are forced to give them sources to prove it is different, otherwise they will simply ignore it.

So can you be a bit more specific? I only ask this because of the overpressure bit. Hesh can cause spalling without penetrating the armor completely, and that would be the issue with the overpressure. Talking about hiting side armor with HESH leaves alot of variables because of side skirts and tracks that should negate the HESH effects.

They don’t need really need any justification to balance things. They can justify it by saying it is for balancing, as this isn’t a 100 percent historical game. I’m not saying it was/wasn’t nerfed at some point, but they can make changes as they see fit.

HESH is by no means a fragmention shell. Not in any sense of the word. It is also nothing like a HEAT shell or even a standard HE shell. Again, the overpressure thing is different for HESH. It can create spalling without penetrating the armor, and the overpressure mechanic is driven by an internal module being damaged in a way that allows the blast to enter the vehicle. That would mean a fragment would have to come from outside the vehicle and through the armor. Also, HESH can only penetrate one layer of armor because of its characteristics. If you hit anything but the primary armor layer then it will do nothing.