Leopard is mobility and good gun, not reload.
It has the worst toptier reload ingame till now.
Arguably mobility and a good gun is more important.
I agree, but sometimes having good reload is also useful.
Whatever Leopards are better for camping in spots since that DM53 slaps
true
“Muh mobility”. Literally the only argument you people have.
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Leopard 2A4 only gets DM23. With a measly 407 pen. T80UD and co all get 3BM42, with 457 pen.
So the tank with the better armor also has the better shell.
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Has an aps counter to multiple spike vehicles at the same br. Legit why should I bring out my puma vjtf anymore when it will block 2 spikes and then my other 2 spikes. Less people will play other nations than russia and top tier ground slowly turns into naval with their soyuz. Rank VII with BMPT and arena. Rank VIII with LMUR and KH38. Im hoping that Gaijin doesn’t add any game breaking russian vehicle to rank VI. Its the highest br bracket I find enjoyable.
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DM23 has better angle performance iirc, and whatever a Leopard has better mobility and thermals, the 80UD doesn’t.
As opposed to you only bringing up frontal armour?
I’ve got a common saying that goes: ‘‘Inexperienced/poor players can be easily identified by them overrating the importance of armour’’.
Mobility plays a significantly larger role in the meta than frontal armour does, but even if we set that aside, the Leopard 2A4 also has better gun depression, turret traverse, thermal sights and survivability.
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Its funny how some people still have the courage to bring up that nonsense two months after the BMPT was released. The BMPT has average mobility, a very poor reverse speed, and limited gun depression. Yet despite these, it is one of the most (if not the most) overpowered vehicle ever released in the game, completely ruining two full BR brackets.
According to you, the 10.3 PUMA should be much better thanks to its mobility and gun depression. So why is the BMPT now at 11.3, while the PUMA is at 10.3?
Yep, thats why even the most inexperienced players achieved a positive k/d ratio with the BMPT when it was released at br 10.3. Its armour certainly had nothing to do with that. It must have been the glorious mobility and gun depression of that thing.
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The arena has top tier thermals with better quality than the leo 2a4. In fact only the Leo 2a7V and Puma have top tier thermals for Germany.
The arena’s APS can legit shoot spike missiles and some A2G missiles. The arena can pen the leopard 2a4 ANYWHERE and the 2a4 has the turret basket nerf.
I’ve got a common saying that goes: ‘‘Inexperienced/poor players can be easily identified by them not knowing what they’re talking about’’
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It really depends on how you count events, amour is only relevant afterall if you find yourself taking fire.
And its not like the usefulness of a mobility advantage can be objectively quantified, since game sense, luck and the Matchmaker of the day play into it. As a Heuristic sure, but not objectively.
This can be played around if map layout is taken into consideration and some base level of planning routes from sight lanes to Points of interest and sight lines it should rarely factor in. and even with a 5 second reload it’s rarely relevant (if not aggressively pushing a tank already out of defilade) since the added exposure that it causes is less than 5 seconds so doesn’t expose you to a an additional round even when aggressively counter peaking.
The same could be said of the NATO hump and getting caught out by the limits preventing the laying of the gun on a target in tight quarters where hull positioning matters.
You shouldn’t really be using them as a Shooting aid, detection yes. And besides its not like the sensitivity is impacted by Generations, only the resolution of the image.
The number of times I see “Driver, Engine”, and get effectively M-killed by losing the Turret basket or hydraulics is really not a surprise is it.
Actually arena has the same turret traverse and elevation that T-80BVM has which 40/40 with ace crew.
It also has second/third gen thermals while basically lolpenning the 2A4.
The only significant advantage that 2A4 has is the mobility which on some maps it doesnt even matter.
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Armour =/= Survivability.
The armour of the BMPT isn’t particularly special for it’s BR, in fact, the T-72B '89 at 10.3 has very similar frontal armour to the BMPT. The armour isn’t what makes it dominant.
What makes it so dominant is the often ludicrous post-pen survivability, mainly thanks to the spall liners, smaller ammunition racks and larger crew count (on one of the two).
If the BMPT died as easily as a T-72B upon being penetrated, but the armour remained the same as it were right now, it wouldn’t be overpowered at all.
There’s significant differences in armament between the two, you’re just cherry-picking a comparison to fit the narrative.
Meanwhile, the T-90M is among the worst 12.7’s in the game whilst it offers some of the best all around armour at it’s BR.
T-72B '89 is among the most protected MBT’s at it’s BR, still nobody plays it because it’s so incredibly mid.
The reload rate, acceleration, reverse speed, etc. are what keep those vehicles from being meta.
Thought they were referring to the T-80UD.
If only APFSDS weren’t what’s being fired at it for 95% of the time.
Also, once again not understanding the difference between armour and survivability.
- Armour = Likelihood of being penetrated.
- Survivability = Likelihood of being killed when penetrated.
An active protection system isn’t part of survivability.
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It is very much so if compared to other TD / IFVs. As very few are built on MBT hulls.
The side ERA coverage of the Fighting compartment, “External” Turret Ammo belts / missiles and the extra powerful destabilizing effect of “Heavy” ERA also contributes too. especially in comparison to other IFV / Missile TDs make it very much an outlier in basically all respects.
If the BMPT died as easily as a M3A3 upon being penetrated it wouldn’t be overpowered at all.
FTFY.
Such as? It has a 30mm Chain gun and Missiles, unless we’re counting APFSDS in place of APDS.
It would still turn a perfectly placed OS,KO into a Non-Pen, it’s armor.
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It’s at 11.0, there are several vehicles with spikes at that br. Don’t throw that 95% number around.
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Fine.
Go and play 11.3 - 11.7 and keep track of every projectile fired at you for around 10 matches.
Let’s see what shell type will make up the vast majority of usage.
I wouldn’t call their acceleration amazing, the T-90s and T-72s have mediocre acceleration and the T-80s have at best good acceleration.
If you read the chain, CollectorOfSins used the 10.3 Puma as an example, which doesn’t have missiles.
The irony is palpable in this bit though.
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Necrons defending even the BMPT and the usual suspects religiously upvoting him anyway really disqualifies you guys from any discussion.
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Your leaps in logic are always fascinating.
Unless it’s about comparing tanks that you have barely played (congratulations, you now have 40 games in your 2A4 instead of 20), then it’s just “but muh armor” over and over again.
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