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People don’t understand that if two shells penetrate the same amount at 60 degrees, but one shell has lower pen at 0 degrees - that actually means it will perform better at angles above 60 degrees.
Less pen flat can be “more” in some ways. Since it works like a linear function.
The Tiger and T-34-85 shells are perfect examples of this.
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Chances are most tanks will just go through the T-54s armor at 8.0 anyway, so a T-44-100 with better mobility and much better turret traverse speed is the better pick anyway.
Of course the T-54 armor can be effective in downtiers but against the armor is really nothing special compared to 7.7 heavy tanks that are much stronger in downtiers.
If it wasn’t for APDS or HEAT-FS the T-54 couldn’t even touch them from the front.
Your previews are broken.
Type69 apfsds has no difficulty with any of those UFPs, but your preview shows otherwise. The marder especially is confusing since it shows 61 effective resistance vs 194 pen in the case of the apfsds. And clicking shows the round penetrating every time. Not only that, the previews show signficiantly better postpen for the apfsds in every case.
Finally, try an angle >60 degrees. Most of the chieftan mk3/5 UFP bounces the T54’s APDS where the Type69s apfsds goes through. The equivalent armor disparity is hilariously different.
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The previews were done badly but they were quite correct, the chance to do damage with a direct shot is small at best for type 71.
Note the huge green blot in the middle of 906. That seems to be invisible optics poking through the solid armor and ruining it, classic case of terrible modeling lmao
Despite being aimed at the 906’s water flap (or whatever it is called exactly) which adds an extra 5mm steel plate, the APDS goes straight through. Actually seems that it will go through at any angle and getting it to ricochet off is near impossible.
Curiously this seems to be somewhat right, the APFSDS can’t penetrate a chieftain at range though. The game says chance of penetration is low but looking at the shell stats it’s simply impossible and shot simulation consistently shows 0 damage
Nah, decompress
There is almost no round IN THE GAME that regularly penetrates at 77-80 degrees. Thats what the ricoshet chance numbers are on every round. The initial screenshots were not at those angles. They are bugged.
500m you can pen the chieftan through the ufp with the APFSDS but not the APDS of the T54 (when you aren’t trying to look at it from 77+ degree angles… like damn near no one would). And thats just an example. A lot of other tanks are going to be generating >60 degree angles through horizontal angling which is where you start seeing a big difference.
But all of this is getting off topic. The Type 69 has a similar solid shot to the T54 but both have the option of HEAT rounds. Except the Type 69’s HEAT is better and the tank chassis has NONE of the disadvantages of the T54. Unless you REALLY want to use 240 pen APHE at 8.0, the Type 69 is an ENORMOUS amount better than the T54. Its like comparing a T95E1 with a Chieftan Mk5.
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laughs in strv 103 haha angles go brr
That’s the kind of angle you get by simply shooting at the frontal plate of many vehicles, and why we might aim at something else if we don’t have something like an ATGM to punch through it.
The difference between the HEATFS is actually unnoticeable, but sure I guess the shell’s initial velocity is higher and penetration is 10mm better. Type 69’s main advantage is definitely the turret that makes it a great HEAT slinger, if 8.0~10.0 wasn’t the ultracompressed hellscape that it is, it could be put above T54s/Type 59 without any issues.
This is literally the only reason I ever bring Type 59 to 8.0, the russian APCBC is insanely good. This might change if APHE rounds are finally reworked
I haven’t played either. This is purely based off the stats of the things on the vehcles. That said, even though APDS has lackluster post pen, I think the fact that it penetrates better at any and every angle compared to the APFSDS of the Type 69 excuses the argument that the post-pen is better on the Type 69.
The Type 69 is also FULLY stabilised with a LRF. The APFSDS round is sufficient, and HEAT is there when you need it.
Yes, but there is little argument for the opinion that the APFSDS for the 69 is better than the -54’s APDS. I think the type 69 could be moved up if anything, but 219 MM of penetration actually does detriment the effectiveness of the 69 quite a bit, or at least I would assume so If fighting medium tanks that have around that amount of armor anyways. I don’t think the argument that the T32E1 should be at the same BR as the T-54 will ever stand up, leading to a kind of zone where there is nowhere to put it. The tanks at 7.7 are worse and, apparently, the tanks at 8.0 are better. Again, I hate to say it, but decompression is the solution.
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I don’t think there has ever been an argument for the T32E1 ever staying at 7.7. Its been a point of contention since GF came out. But thats a different topic.
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I also believe decompression is needed. There should be more single plane stabilised tanks to bridge the gaps too.
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Fair but I could name many more that are 7.7 that don’t really compete with the T-54. Most of the M48s aren’t as good, the italian M47, possibly some of the swede 7.7, the sho’t. In conclusion, its hard to put it at both battle ratings either way in the pursuit of pleasing the playerbase but they refuse to decompress significantly anyways.
You can’t argue that ‘because there is a shitty tank at this BR, nothing that might be better can move into that BR’. Thats just bad faith. Because there are also better tanks at 7.7. The AMX50-120 is far better than the T54s. The STRV-81/Centurion 3/caern are better. Then lets look at the MOUNTAIN of vehicles at 8.0 that are better than T54s at 8.0 and its rather silly.
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im arguing the point that decompression is heavily needed
People will literally ALWAYS be asking for ‘more decompression’. You saw it in beta. They split the game from 20 BRs to 30. Then people started complaining about compression nearly imediately. Its EXTREMELY unlikely to see a major decompression event, so asking for it repeatedly instead of BR adjustments is just going to get you neither.
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Any 90mm HEATFS launcher with M348 or equivalent can do the job. If that doesn’t work, there’s always derp artillery at 6.0+ which every nation has, except the French & Swedish ones being a bit higher up.
I say this from experience, as when spading my IS-4M the thing I quickly learned to fear most were M109s. My shell would always overpen unless I hit the engine block from the front, and they’d delete me by aiming in my general direction. Which was fine by me as M109s aren’t speed demon go-karts with HEAT. They’re a specialized derp tank that can derp literally anything into next week.
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