Yeah it comes close to a T-90M with Arena-M at that point but it will be silly to leave it naked and since they can no longer give it the UBH package i supect they will give it an obr.2025 package .
I know fully well that anything in the internet is not always real
No way! That’s sick! I’m really curious to see the APS in action in-game. It’s quite unique.
Edit: Yup its here.
Honestly, the best version of the APS is the British Challenger 2 Black Knight since it can shoot down APFSDS-T at range, missiles, etc. We’ll get the Challenger 3 production with ERA, APS, and more eventually. Same goes for Israel, new batches of Merkava with improved APS and vehicles like the Eitan or Sabrah with APS, its going to be fine. APS will be available for everyone.
Yes it will but the CR2 BN is just a CR2…APS system is what makes it unique.
Giving great tanks like a 2A7 (2A8) or a T-90M or even an M1A2 SEP V3
makes the Merkava, CR2/3 and others even less relevant.
I have zero hope for the CR3 and it’s brand new classified armour, after they crapped all over the CR3 TD. Gaijin don’t care if it’s good or not.
We have seen this the best tanks power creep the rest and then strip them of their unique features.
CR2 had a 4.5 second reload made it good to brawl with, now it’s 5 seconds for 4 rounds then 6.5 seconds.
The Challenger 3 production is significantly different from the TD that we have. The TD lacks the new armor and other features to be brought on with the production model.
The Challenger 2 Black Knight has a LWS, updated CITV, and its Iron-Fist APS which is a pretty significant upgrade to the base Challenger 2. Sure it has the same armor but that APS has saved me quite a bit against both Ka-52’s and APFSDS-T on large maps.
I think you’re coming to quick to judge something that even isn’t in-game yet. The Merkava and Challenger both have there issues but so does other tanks like the SEPv1/2, etc. The same issues will likely arise for the M1A2 SEPv3 along with the production Challenger 3 for armor, etc. As for the T-72B3A, the APS is quite different, we won’t know how it will perform until the Devserver drops then you could be surprised.
Yes its a base model CR2 a previous 10.3 tank with an APS system all of the other tanks have seen armour upgrades, FCS upgrades.
CR3 will be crap because Gaijin cannot believe that it could be good. They discount all the reports on armour for all NATO tanks
Yes BN APS has saved me a couple of times, imagine a system like that on an already hard to kill tank.
Sounds good…No I believe Arena will function like Iron Fist as it can stop missiles, bombs, darts etc but if it doesn’t work it still has Relikt/K5 to protect the tank.
It’s a struggle for all NATO tanks yes I agree but I think the CR3 will be fine. It’s development is looking pretty good. Wait until it gets here.
Arena-M has been rated against missiles, not APFSDS-T. I’ve not seen anything for it to be able to destroy APFSDS-T or stop it and I have been on the lookout for it. All there is is just small talk on it, the system itself has only been officially shown against missiles. No official information on it so don’t jump the gun on something that doesn’t exist.
1 Like
Do we know anything if it’s intercept speeds? Arena-M I mean. I’m willing to bet it’s around 1,000m/s
1 Like
Since we are on the topic of hard kill APS , first of all worth noting that Iron Fist in WT can even block Yamato main caliber rounds ( can’t be bothered to find the video but it exists ), so it should not be taken as a refence since it is COMICALLY overperforming in the game . Can’t stress that enough.
Realistically speaking there is no hard kill APS be it in active service or in developpment that can fully stop an 120/125/140/152mm APFSDS penetrator. Best a hard kill APS can do is degrade the penetrator peformance either by blunting the penetrator , bending the penetrator or inducing yaw to the penetrator ( or a combination of those ) before it enters contant with ERA or the main array and this can lead to double digit percentage of penetration lost depending the circumstances. But it will never be able to completely stop it , even 3BM22 type of penetrators ( read old designs ) still have residual penetration so you can imagine how it goes for modern longrod penetrators .
Now with this in mind not all hard kill APS are created equal in that regard. Much like ERA packages can be optimised for either KE or CE threats same goes for APS . Some APS ( like Iron Fist , Trophy , Arena/M ) use interceptors that work on the buckshot principle and are thus more optimised towards ‘‘light skin’’ threats like RPG , ATGM , HE/HEAT. Other APS ( Afghanit comes first in mind ) use EFP interceptors that work on the slug principle and are thus more optimised towards heavy KE threats like APFSDS ( since they have all the the mass concentrated on one point they can better induce yaw , bend or blunt a KE projectile compared to the buckshot principle ).
As stated above Iron Fist interceptors work on the buckshot principle so they are not optimised towards APFSDS ( let alone completely stoping them ). Elbit Systems has only shown testing against unspecified ‘‘120mm KE’’ which from the looks of it could be PELE type of KE round ( soft core APFSDS ) and the video cuts too early to make any assesment of the results. Arena-M is on the same boat , it’s not optimised for APFSDS.
To be fair that is not a bad thing for either system since most threats in the modern battlefiend are by vast majority CE threats , KE threats are marginal .
1 Like
I’m well aware of the residual penetration of APS post-interdicting an APFSDS-T and only say “stop” due to the fact that 9/10 times you survive the round but Arena-M has not been officially stated to stop/slow APFSDS-T in any regard while Iron-Fist has been officially stated with the ability to intercept APFSDS-T. There’s no public information on its intercept speed (or max velocity its onboard RADAR can observe/register the munition) either that’s the two differences I’m using for what it can do in-game. It’s likely going to be tapered to intercept in-game missiles as official information has it that its able to do just that (official specifications are classified ofc) and it will most likely not be able to do anything against APFSDS-T unless it’s at a very low velocity (as in APFSDS-T standards).
You definitely posted a good read though, I enjoyed it and it’s good for those who don’t know much about APS and its ability to intercept. I also apologize if I comes across as condescending, I’m really not trying to be.
1 Like
Oh yeah my post was more meant for the general public reading this topic , not aimed at anybody but i used that particular quote of yours as a start point .
As far as im aware yes, no official specification has been given on Arena-M so hard to tell what min and max interception speeds are , that is most likely classified. But yeah i agree with the conclusion that Arena-M be it in the game or IRL will be tapered towards ATGMs and maybe HE/HEAT but that last part remains doubtfull .
I get what you are trying to infer in regards to Iron Fist and Arena-M. My argument is just that purely based on the interceptor working principle i can say with high confidence that neither Arena-M nor Iron Fist are particularly optimised for APFSDS even if Iron Fist radar has the technical capability to intercept APFSDS and has been advertised as such. Could be wrong but from what i’ve seen i doubt .
1 Like