Then they might find a way to say leo 2a4 with lvl 0 crew reload at 8 seconds, which shoots 10 times already 20 seconds behind t-64 reload speed, because mathematics bro. And remember that Leo 2a4 also has dogwater ammunition, where t-64b shoots 3mb42 10 times = 4570mm pen, where the total pen of dm23 from Leo 2a4 is only at 4080mm pen, that’s about 500mm pen difference! that is the definition of russian bias bro yall just don’t admit it
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Scuse me xD
The figure not big enough? shoot it 100 times then
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Because the lower front plate doasen’t exist…
Just the astronomical numbers man ngl got a laugh out of it hahahaa.
I mean with expert and full crew it’s about 6.7? which is ofc slower than the T64B, but the 2a4 is also right now nearly a full BR higher and has a worse reload xd
its like m1 abrams vs leo 2a4. Both are 10.7 but imo leo is better in every aspect except that it has slightly worse mobility , no ess and less surviveability . What are the options to fix this ?
- Lower abrams to 10.3 and that’s it, no other changes.
- Keep it at 10.7 but give it m833.
Neat, just blatantly lying. And don’t pretend you aren’t constantly doing exactly what you accuse me of doing.
Kontakt 1 has like… 5mm of Kinetic protection…
It’s literally a 9.3 with Kontakt 1 blocks and Gen 2 Thermals.
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I tried to argue with you in the Leo 2A4 suffers thread, but I lost patience pretty quickly when all the 2A4’s strengths just get waved aside as “insignificant” while you want us to believe that the advantages that the other tanks have are somehow gamechanging.
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You’re missing the full second faster reload? xD
the abrams is fine at 10.7, it’s only drawback is it¡s penetration which even then isn’t terrible it’s just not fantastic.
5.1 second reload I got on it without ace crew
Give it the M833 and it’ll got to
11.0
You might be surprised, but I feel the exact same way about your argumentation. Especially when you ignore that the Leo 2A4 doesn’t even get DM33. Which it absolutely should.
@An_Pigeon People really overlook how screwed both Germany and Sweden are on the reload front. 6.4 seconds with a fully trained expert crew and commander buff. 6.0 for an Ace Crew. Some other vehicles have 1-2 seconds on an Ace Crew in terms of reload.
And while many Russian vehicles have 6-7 seconds that’s stock out of the game, and they can’t take damage, lose their loader and suddenly have a much worse reload rate.
Yeah, it should get DM33 if it were moved up to 11.0. For 10.7 DM23 is more than fine.
slight nitpick, but the Abrams reload with a levbel 150 expert crew is 5.3 second.
However you are right about everything else. It’s funny when people compare the M1 and 2A4 as a show of proof that one of them should move down in BR.
Like how? you are comparing 2 of the best 10.7 MBTs lol. the worst of the 2 is still among the best overall at 10.7.
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Ah yes, meanwhile they lose out a tad on reload but are ahead on armour , ammunition type, and mobility compared to most nations.
Yes like the ariete, which has literally spaced armour in the hull.
worse mobility.
Or the merkava which has god awful armour, worse round, worse mobility and profile.
CR2? 5 second reload for only four rounds then it gets slower than most top tier MBTS.
What? most russian vehicles had a locked 7.1 second reload for years putting them at the back of the pack. Again the T80BVM with it’s top tier round which is extremely middling has a 6.4 second reload, comparable to the leopard 2a7 with DM53.
They can’t take damage?
Turret ring, lower frontal plate, drivers hatch, breach shot which is effectively the entire top of the turret.
Shall i go on?
No but they have a 3 man crew so they suffer other issues like repair times and such.
Oh ofc, if it moved up it should 100 percent get an ammunition buff.
I went out on a limb with the 5.1 cause I really couldn’t remember if it was 5.3 or 5.1 and got it wrong lol.
They want to enforce their own biases, like imagine the M1 VS 9.3s or the 2A4 VS 9.3
we already ahve the 2AV against 9.3s and it slaps them into the ground.
The literal best two 10.7 MBTs before the reload buff to the T80B, now it’s a toss up between the T80B and the M1 for 2nd place and the Leopard2a4 is top
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I call that the Pharah issue, in Overwatch when you’re deep in the metal ranks, people consider that the flying character hardcounter hitscans because their aim is so cheeks they know they won’t hit, so they don’t ever bother shooting her.
This is why a lot of people want anti-era shells, the best they can do is hit the target…
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That’s why most folks sport a terrible KD, russian tanks have some of the most profound weakpoints of any MBTs in the game man, it’s absolutely ridiculous if you are telling me you don’t have time to hit at least one of the afformentioned points, even if you don’t know it out in one hit you most certainly will disable it enough.
Cause they want the capability of not having to fking aim mate that’s why.
They want to just roll around one tapping every vehicle through the front which for balance makes no damn sense
DM53 has nearly 700 penetration if they cannot beat a damn T72 or T90M with that then they shouldn’t be at those BRs.
M829A2 is the highest penning L/44 round in the game which absolutely annhilates russian MBTs as well.
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idk it might be playstyle related, but I would still take the better gun handling, gun depression angles and mobility of the 2A4 over the better firepower of the T-80B. However I can’t really argue a lot against your ranking either.
However I do agree that the T-80B got a big boost up the ranking list with the reload buff.
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Generally I’d agree but to save the pitch fork and torches I lumped the 80B in there.
It’s fantastic witha 6 second reload and the mobility is nice.
However it still lacks a lot as you say.
The 2A4 is the best 10.7 right now then I’d say m1 and T80B behind it, wether people want to say M1 is better or worse than 80B is upto them.
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I’ve seen a fella put seven dart in the back of a 2S38 that had a disabled turret instead of either pushing for a view of his crew compartment, or switching to HE. And he was not even hitting the engine so he did not farm fires either.
The general playerbase is not only trailing behind in mechanics, but also knowledge as a whole, the fact that over ten years later you can still farm kills from the northwest spawn of Poland into the Southeast one shows how impervious the community is to learning.
The situation being further hampered by the amount of people that are Gamer Gods that make no mistakes, thus who deem introspection beneath them, and disregard any attempt at helping them…
So the fact people suck means every one else should suffer ? I am an average player with a 1.0 KD and have no idea how people cannot shoot a T series tank properly, it’s not difficult, they’re not some invincible vehicle at all.