Never see Swedish players bringing these out ever honestly. OSA is the dominant 10.3 AA while Ozelot is the way to go for anything lower than that along with the LAV.
Sweden kind of gets screwed over in the SPAA department. They get the ITPSV and that’s all that’s noteworthy.
Then surely I’d see people dodging them when using rolands. I’ve spawned free Roland tanks atleast a couple dozen times now, across playing Boxer MGS, R400, M1128, and French CV90. I can remember one time that a MiG-21 gave me some trouble, but he died after a few rolands anyways cause planes have limited energy.
Now, to be fair, I am pretty good at dodging rolands, however practically performing CAS whilst dodging rolands isn’t a very realistic expectation.
Certainly doesn’t help that rolands are paired against 1940s-50s planes.
Then we are playing 2 completely different games.
I’m able to dodge Roland’s with ease even in Orion drones, and you absolutely can keep a laser on a target and take them out while being fired upon by a Roland, since I don’t think the can move while they have a missile out.
This isn’t even dipping into just flying low to avoid detection from them, which is pretty easy, especially since they can’t fire on you effectively once you pass them due to their turret traverse (same reason why they can’t fire at close range).
Roland’s face 1950’s planes because they are an early SAM system that is severely gimped in game (screwed over by those missile changes a few years back). It doesn’t surprise me that a Mig-21 died to it, as that thing pisses energy away crazy fast. But he should have never been in a position where a Roland can get an accurate firing solution on him, especially since he didn’t have laser guided weaponry, meaning he shouldn’t be high up in the air at all.
Regardless, the Roland is in no way shape or form overpowered. It is just meh, and nothing more. The OSA is better in terms of missiles, but it cannot fire close due to launcher elevation and its glacial turret traverse.
The 2S6 is the only one of the 3 that is consistently strong in every situation. Then again though, the Tram outranges it with AGM-123’s, so it really shouldn’t go up.
Well, Harriers and F-100Ds aren’t exactly laser guided missile equipped drones are they? Maybe the rolands should be at a BR where they never face such planes.
Flying low doesn’t really seem to work unless it’s an urban map like Sweden.
Rolands work pretty well against targets <1 miles away.
That’s a bit of an overstatement. Rolands are very competent missiles.
No, it is certainly overpowered.
You are talking to a guy who belives that air should always have the upper hand.
I know, it a pointless but I’m just trying to understand how an individual comes to that conclusion.
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Sorry, but just because you personally suck at using them, doesn’t mean they’re weak.
So you think a plane should cost 70sp? That’s an interesting take.
Ooh! Ooh! My turn! Ok, let’s see:
How exactly can one suck at using SAMs? I suppose firing them at an inopportune times, but once they’re in the air, there is approximately FA you can do to effect them.
Your ability to misunderstand what someone is talking about, and still use a straw man fallacy is honestly impressive.
They are talking about you. In every topic I see you in, you are either pushing for one aircraft or another (that you seem to have never played, go figure) to be nerfed, or bawling about how CAS needs to be buffed, or SPAA nerfed.
And if you’re going to use a straw man fallacy, make it at least slightly reasonable.
That is actually a great question. It became even more confusing that people can fail to use em after the PPI was added (and subsequently removed the last bit of skill required).
No, you and ULQ simply misunderstood what he was talking about. If CAS were to be equal in strength to SPAA, then it would need to be the same cost as SPAA.
Because CAS costs more, it needs to be stronger to maintain balance.
???
My point was that, unless you are spamming your missiles (or smth else I haven’t thought of), you can’t be bad at using SAMs, but you definitely can be bad at CAS. Take that as you will.
You misunderstood me this time, and are now saying that ULQ misunderstood themselves? I’m not even going to touch this, bc it’s simply to much of a mess already.
CAS is one of, if not the most debated topics in the game, and certainly won’t be solved here. My opinion is that CAS is fine the way it is, but there should be a CAS-less gamemode for those who don’t want to deal with it.
People can’t definitely be bad at using SAMs. I don’t understand how, but the fact that some people think the rolands are weak is proof of it.
Yeah, pretty much everything ULQ says is abit of a mess.
ohh, that makes sense.
I’m glad
NOT what I said, nor what I meant. I was talking about that whole argument; I can’t be bothered clarifying everything.
I’m going to assume you meant ‘…can definitely…’ so in that case:
It’s not proof of it, as (brushing over the fact that you straw manned the original argument of rolands only being not op) the players saying that one specific missile isn’t op are almost certainly playing other missile SPAA the same way, leaving the only variable as the missile, which isn’t controlable by the player, therefore people saying the missile isn’t op compared to other missiles is decent evidence.
In addition, you being the only person arguing for it being op, with multiple arguing against, doesn’t help your cause at all.
I am done now, because I have a life and have had enough of your fallacies, at least for now.
I will reiterate my above point for everyone, bc this is an important topic that should be addressed.
They cannot possibly be playing the same way if they’re struggling with rolands.
I’d disagree. It would be fair to say it’s less OP than other SAMs, but saying it doesn’t need to be raised simply because it’s not the best is just a bad faith argument.
You’re talking about players that think CAS can only be balanced by removing it. They will never claim that any SPAA in any context is too strong. In other words, they have nothing to add to the discussion, as you can already know they will exclusively take the side of CAS too strong SPAA too weak.
Ok, rapid-fire, then I’m done fr:
Argument from incredulity
No one said it needs to be the best. Straw man fallacy (I may have misinterpreted this, but it was quite difficult to desipher)
Easily one of the most obvious straw mans I have ever seen; to quickly acknowledge the last point, not a single person has said that CAS is too strong, or that SPAA is too weak, only that a single type of missile isn’t overpowered.
Now I am truely done, and I would appreciate you not trying to drag this out further, because, again, this isn’t what this topic post is for.
They’re not strawmans. It’s their own arguments
This topic is closed please use this topic here for BR topics
Link: [Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings - #2420 by Реquоd