Suggestion: Revise AH-64E Countermeasures & AGM-179 MR Speed to Match Real-World Data

Dev Server "Tusk Force" General Discussion - Dev Server
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Hey everyone,

I’d like to propose some updates for the AH-64E Apache and the AGM-179MR missile in War Thunder, based on publicly available data that may not be fully reflected in-game:

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Apache AH-64E Countermeasures: 90 vs. 30

Current in-game stats show 30 countermeasures—but evidence suggests a higher real-world capacity:
• The Apache’s M130 chaff dispensers each hold 30 cartridges, and they’re typically fitted two per helicopter (one per side), for a total of ~60. 
• A community-sourced summary (likely based on credible documentation) lists for the AH-64E: 3× M130 dispensers, totaling 90 chaff/flares. 
• Additionally, modern Apaches are being outfitted with CIRCM directional infrared countermeasures (DIRCM) as a higher-level defensive system.  

Suggestion: Adjust the in-game capacity to ~90 countermeasures (via 3× M130 dispensers) and consider integrating a functional representation of CIRCM as an advanced defensive upgrade.

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  1. AGM-179 MR Missile Speed: Mach 1.5 (~510 m/s)

The in-game speed of 340 m/s appears understated:
• Authoritative sources cite the standard AGM-179 (JAGM) speed at Mach 1.5, roughly 510 m/s.  
• The JAGM-MR (“Medium Range”) variant doubles the range and retains Mach 1.5 performance.  

Suggestion: Update the AGM-179 MR’s speed to Mach 1.5 (~510 m/s) to match real-world performance expectations.

These adjustments would enhance realism and better reflect modern Apache specs considering most U.S. apaches lack new specs. Thanks for considering!

ALL SOURCES

AirVectors (M130 chaff dispensers info):
airvectors
.net/avah64.html

Designation-Systems.net (AGM-179 JAGM speed Mach 1.5):
designation-systems
.net/dusrm/m-179.html

COMPARING THE OLDER AGM-179A to the newer AGM-179MR

AGM-179A (Baseline JAGM)
• Designation: AGM-179A
• Role: Direct replacement for AGM-114 Hellfire
• Range: ~8 km (air-launched)
• Speed: Mach 1.5 (~510 m/s)
• Guidance: Dual-mode seeker (semi-active laser + millimeter-wave radar)
• Platforms: Apache AH-64E, AH-1Z Viper, MQ-9 Reaper, MH-60 helicopters, etc.
• IOC: Entered service around 2019–2020 with the U.S. Army

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AGM-179 MR (Medium Range JAGM)
• Designation: AGM-179 JAGM-MR (sometimes referred to as JAGM Increment 3)
• Role: Extended-range upgrade of the AGM-179A
• Range: ~16 km (air-launched, double the AGM-179A’s reach)
• Speed: Mach 1.5 (~510 m/s) — unchanged from baseline
• Guidance: Tri-mode seeker (laser + MMW radar + imaging IR) → greatly improves countermeasure resistance
• Platforms: Apache AH-64E, MQ-1C Gray Eagle ER drones, and intended for F-35 integration
• Status: Still in development and testing (Lockheed Martin revealed MR testing success in 2022–2023; full fielding pending)

13 Likes
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CIRCM is actually LDIRCM in game terms

this is range for a static ground launch

should also be on AH-1Z

10 Likes
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Regarding AGM-179 and its speed, has anyone already made a bug report? If so, please provide a link.

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What’s most interesting is that I couldn’t find any information about 1 mach anywhere on Google. Everywhere they write about 1.5 mach. So I think that Gaijin took the information about 1 mach purely from their heads.

2 Likes
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Idk were you getting those numbers from. JAGM uses hellfire motor assembly (maybe lower drag and front end is lighter) but it will never get those made up numbers

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No. Base JAGM uses the Hellfire motor section. JAGM-MR(which is what we have) uses a new motor section.

6 Likes
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Its almost always people making up random numbers not gajin. Not to mention the obsession with statcard speed which has nothing to do with game.

The nonexistent JAGM-MR currently has 650m/s of deltaV split half and half into booster and sustainer.

If you want it to reach this irrelevant mach 1.5 number you’d be nerfing it significantly

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Speed is not ∆v. If the missile does not reach it’s stated 510m/s from a stationary launch, it is underperforming.

6 Likes
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Idk what you guys actually want because you all want to NERF the missile by putting all of its power in booster phase.

You dont seem to know what “underperforming” means

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Are you stupid?

The missile is still accelerating as long as either of the motor sections are burning.

If it does not reach at least 510m/s when the sustainer runs out it is underperforming, period.

9 Likes
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So its overperfoming because the current way its a significantly better missile then your made up max speed on trajectory want it to be.

What you’re proposing is very hard nerf to its capability

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Except that it’s not?

Until it reaches 510m/s from a stationary launch, and travels 16km while doing it, it’s underperforming.

4 Likes
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It will never do that because its not magical, using the mass given out for JAGM-MR and JAGM i simuleted them using hellfire stats (only adding wet mass to JAGM-MR)

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Wherever you read that mach 1.5 value is just bullshiting using rocket equation for that extra 1.8kg of propelant (20% more impulse) you are not getting a significant difference, only matching the lighter hellfire performance.

2 Likes
15

It’s likely that the fuel used has also significantly improved in the 4 or so decades since the M120E1 was designed. considering it uses APC/HTPB, there are significantly improved options that exist.

4 Likes
16

Russians will not tolerate the United States having better missiles than them. You can take a look at the CM502KG they made, and they even only gave this poor missile a top speed of 0.6 Mach XD.

2 Likes
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By the way, regarding the CM502KG, they claimed that they could not confirm that this missile was a HEAT warhead, so they only stuffed 4.5 kilograms of explosives into this 11 kilogram warhead missile, which was even inferior to a regular 125mm HE.XD

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Gaijin always make up some stuff haphazardly according to their ideas, and when you think they are doing things haphazardly, you need to provide “at least two unrelated and official (whether or not the official interpretation is also in Gaijin’s hands) sources” before they reluctantly accept your issue. Whether or not to change it is once again irrelevant to you.XD

1 Like
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It hasnt improved solid rocket motor is gonna be solid rocket motor, we havent changed anything about rockets since the 1960s. Physics is hard

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…
Sure, youre not changing physics. But you can change materials used for motor, which will give more thrust.

1 Like