Seriously, can the Pantsir S1 please have the missiles nerfed? the recent changes that increased the 95Ya6’s range to 20km have made it so surviving in 11.7 is literally impossible if you’re facing Russia, the Pantsir having missiles with 20km range is genuinely ridiculous. lets just do a little comparison of Pantsir vs say the top SPAA of the USA tech tree;
Pantsir S1, BR 11.7
12 missiles that travel at 1300 m/s and fly for 20km, can elevate both launcher and cannon at over 85°. has a radar that has a cone that extends to over 13km vertical at 30km that can lock looking straight up. (literally no way to get over the Pantsir’s detection cone) multiple locking/tracking modes including IR-based ones that have NO warning if you get locked by. x4 30mm cannon (fire rate 1250 rpm) that shred ALL MBTs from side/rear (and some from front)
XM1069 (ADATS), BR 11.7
8 missiles that travel at 1027 m/s with a hard limit of 10km, cannot elevate above 59°, making it so that there’s a vast deadzone that any plane or helicopter that gets above can easily kill you without any trouble, like Ka-52s/Mi-28s spawnrushing at game start. also has only one radar mode for locking that alerts all targets that you’ve locked onto that they’re in danger. 1x 25mm cannon (fire rate 500 rpm) that is basically good for fighting against light tanks as it’s too weak and slow to be much danger to any aircraft at this BR (and has the same elevation lock as the launcher, so useless for close fighting, too.
Seriously. I rest my case that the Pantsir NEEDS to be nerfed, it’s beyond the best SPAAs of ALL OTHER NATIONS combined, it has better, longer range missiles than the XM1069, higher elevation angles and a radar that’s literally the difference between 1.0 and 11.0 BRs for the sheer chasm of capabilties between these two top tier 11.7 systems. (and with the nerf to ADATS’ missiles, they’re almost useless for anti-tank work as they can’t be aimed inside of 500 meters/will slam into the floor.). I recommend either seriously reducing the effectiveness of the god-tier radar on the Pantsir, and/or giving it a massive decrease in missile range to the old 14km range. as of the time of this post, you literally can’t even spawn a jet now if you’re against Russia without having the Pantsirs fire missiles at you the second you spawn with virtually no way to get out of their range. all other SPAA systems have balances in game, whether it’s the abysmal radar/firing angles and dead spot on the ADATS, or the FlaRakRad being limited to two missiles before each 10-second reload… Pantsir has no balancing flaws at all and dominates all games it’s in. (the only rare exceptions being when there’s so much CAS up that the Pantsirs literally can’t kill all of them… either nerf the Pantsir, or make the rest of the nations have similarly powerful SPAA, right now it’s just unfair and unfun.)
(ALSO APOLOGIES IF THIS IS IN THE WRONG PLACE/CATEGORIZED WRONG!! read all the rules and tried my best!! sorry if I messed up, this is my first try writing in four+ years of War Thundering)
wellll suggestion would be in the suggestion forum, but this is maschiney of war forum, but since its pretty much a rant about the pantsir it still works. short answer sadly it wont happen, gajin doesnt listen to playerbase to matters like that, they will only look at their statistics and handle it from their
Oooooh, sorry, I have no idea where any of that is! like trying to go through all the forum names/subjects is a bit overwhelming and hard to figure out with being new to all of it! (but thanks for telling me where to go next time, I think at least as there’s no subject search as far as I can tell which is compounding my figuring it all out)
the suggested forum, needs to be accepted by moderators , your post wouldnt have been accepted as suggestion either way since it is more classified as a rant, dont worry
For me the biggest problem is the map size.
How do you gonna explain that anything that faces Russia spawns withing the Pantsir range… - yeah, It might be easy to dodge at this range, doesn’t matter. The sheer fact that you spawn instantly in the danger zone is just pure bias lol
For your own safety you either have to fly defensively immedietaly or do a U-turn to do some sideclimbing.
Im all in for SPAA supremacy but not for a one sided one…
This happens literally at all BRs. Around 7.7 you’ve got the ZSU-37-2 shredding just about anything and just nothing on the other side.
dont remember since i dont need to deal with pantsyr yet, but the solution would be spawn at airfield fly low so that they dont get a shot at you right of the spawn
I don’t think the Pantsir needs to be nerfed, but it definitely has quite a lot of luxuries over other toptier SPAA. It helps a lot if your RWR can detect its presence, as then you know if you actually have to worry about anything from 10km+. After the saclos nerf, all SPAA got their effective range quite nerfed, tho the Pantsir has the ability to suprise people from 10km+ away, which is helpful, whilst others do not at all.
The ADATS doesn’t have it the worst either. Contrary to your claim, the ADATS does not warn enemy planes on the RWR when tracking. Sure it has only one radar mode, it however simply has no tracking radar. It rather uses IRST for tracking. Furthermore it uses beam riding missiles, which gives no RWR launch warning (the Pantsir also benefits from that, but that’s because its tracking radar is K-band and no fixed wing aircraft RWR can detect it).
The state of SPAA in general is just not great. Yeah the Pantsir is stronger, but the other systems just need to get buffed rather. I think if we can at least return the effectiveness of SPAA systems to more like how it used to be for <10km, that’d be great.
This looks like yet another “pls nerf my only decent counter” thread from CAS abuser wanting to regain his dominance he’s been enjoying thruought lower tiers.
This is why it’s an issue though, the only other nation that has something even close is China with the TOR-M1. All others have comparatively middling performance or have specific (easily abuseable) downsides that have a massive impact on performance and being stuck at the same BR especially if you take it in context of the GRB Lineups and relative SP costs.
The thing to do where would be Simplify some of the Pantsir’s advantageous mechanics (e.g. emissions not showing on modern RWRs ) to ensure that performance is similar to existing SAM systems at 11.7. (or add a replacement Russian TOR at 11.7 and raise the Pantsir to 12.3)
Add a new tier SAM’s (e.g. MIM-23, SA-2 etc.).
A general SP rebalance of A2G aircraft ordnance, sufficient to reduce the prevalence of full PGM loadouts. and the addition of Anti-Radiation missiles to bridge the resultant SP gap between dumb and precision stores.
The problem is the systems are modelled “accurately “ (they are not, at all, but anyway) but the environment they operate in is not accurate at all, what with ka-50s not shredding their own rotors when they go over -1 g, fighters screaming in at mach 1+ at treetop hight etc.
At this point, I think they need to abandon what they have done to the missiles recently. I don’t care if gaijin think it’s realistic (it’s not, at all), it’s ridiculous in game.
We need a major update to sort out the anti-air issues. Fill the gaps, fix the missiles and long standing bugs. A ground only mode is clearly never happening, so something else is needed.
No more planes or helicopters until ground units can defend themselves adequately rather than being helpless if the plane user changes their heading by 0.0000001 degrees.
I’m of an opinion that instead of nerfing one of the only SPAAs that can reliably counter stuff, we should get more SPAAs with similar performance for other countries as well.
Also, why do we have to deal with 12.3 aircraft while using 11.7 SPAA ?
thats where the problem lies, the western nations went another way with their doctrines, their doesnt exist an western pantsir equivalent, recent situation just showed that they are needed and development started again
That’s what the OP is saying though so you agree with him in some way.
GRB needs SP and SPAA overhaul.
Meaning you clear the enemy team of SPAA threats, which allows your CAS to move in only for the enemy team to spawn a 70SP SPAA right below you and there is no escape. No counterplay. 70SP AA left clicks on your 700SP plane and you just die. Its dumb.
It is not an issue until the first radar SPAA’s. The game is somewhat balanced until then. After that GRB gets turned on its head. Pantsir, in current GRB state is unbalancable.
It would be beneficial for Gaijin to invest in game mode development and have one major update solely dedicated to it instead of bringing in new shiny. Because what good is to have over 2000 vehicles when all you can used them in is a glorified CQB team deathmatch? And yes, anything smaller than red desert is a CQB map when we talk about cold war era.
Are you suggesting that planes are underpowered against spaa?!
Well they sometimes are. For example when I play France at 7.7 and take my Ouragan, I always get wrecked by the 4 ZSU whatever that are on the opposite side.
On the other hand, all soviet helis and planes can freely roam around since there’s no useful AA on my side.
The problem is not CAS vs SPAA as I deeply hate CAS. The problem is only one side gets to be immune to CAS while the other suffers.
Read it again please. I am suggesting a complete GRB overhaul. Get rid of the current spawn point system. For example: Everyone starts with 1 light or medium tank. No 1st spawn SPAA, heavy tanks, planes or helicopters.
You capture A (which is an aluminium plant for immersion purposes) your team gets 1 plane spawn for each minute the team holds it. You cap B point (which is a steel factory for immersion purposes) your team gets +2 heavy tank spawns every minute you hold it. Player with higher score has a priority spawn for the special units you get from capture zones (heavy tanks, SPAA, planes, helicopters). You get my point I suppose. Matches would last longer. Would be more balanced and more fun. We would not fight over some silly tickets, but rather who gets to destroy each others base first. Your team does not have any special units to spawn? Not a problem. Light and medium tank spawns are unlimited. Have fun!
The cap points would finally make sense instead of the nonsensical empty field or 2 trees capture circles we have now. What are we capturing there anyway, squirrels?
Alternatively the addition of a complete new mode. In more detail: we can call it G RB EC for example. Huge map, much more players, long matches, no spawn points, but rather something more sophisticated. Dynamic objectives, drop in drop out servers etc… Basically you will have to get your SPAA in the AO in order to engage. Not that the planes ALREADY spawn inside the range of your missile and ALL the friendlies you provide cover for are also in the range of your missiles.
This is what makes it imbalanced.
People try to balance vehicles in a flawed game mode thinking the vehicles themselves are flawed. This is why vehicles fluctuate so much between different battle ratings, while the only thing broken is the actual mode we play them in.
Yes, new game modes are badly needed.
I would like for planes with guided munitions to have to spawn 100km away, and players on the opposing team get automated warnings about inbound enemy aircraft.
It would be more realistic than what we have now. These are shorad systems, the last line of defence and are integrated into other air defence systems which can detect targets from much longer range, like I doubt the commander of a strela spent all day staring at the sky looking for a dot.
It will never, ever happen of course, but still, would be nice.
Actually not a bad idea but that would require a lot more than SP system overhaul.
For example the heavy tank is played as a reward for capturing the steel factory. Sure that sounds fun, but that would only benefit the soviet heavies once again since all other heavies are just glorified mediums with enormous weakspots.
That means that people would concentrate on planes and the game would become a buzzing mess of planes stomping on ground vehicles.