Yes its already a faction if you look at the faction overview part of the suggestion. The line system is abandoned in the faction overview but if you look at the national level, the traditional line system is still there. The categorical division of the vehicles would be represented as such in the factional overview.
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i will try to be as clear as possible now. i’m suggesting the FABRICATION part not faction part, i might have unknowingly worded it like so but i was just trying to chnage the perception and make the answer elaborate to avoid confusion.
i’m talking about abandoning the line system in progression not presentation, i tried to be as clear as possible but i feel u didn’t quite get what i was really talking about.
again, this is also for progression not presentation.
please read the content carefully before any comment, it hurts my pride to see the suggestion i poured my heart into writing being brushed off without being read or understood carefully, if you have any qualms about my suggested system you can criticise me based on that, but undermining my efforts without comprehending what i’m talking about doesn’t sit well with me.
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This is already how it works in the rework. Imstead of a main nation having subnations, it’s a faction including multiple foldered nations.
There is none that is presented as “main” nation anymore, the flag that is shown is the one from the currently selected nation.
The Thai tree is selected, so the Thai flag is shown
This is also something I thought of. In the suggested Rework national trees are not interconnected in terms of progression. You can research Hungary for example without ever needing to touch the Italian tree.
See it not as a combined faction tree, but multiple independent national trees that function with familiar line progression, but can be combined in lineups of the given faction instead.
This cooperation is optional, but beneficial to gameplay since it offers better lineups.
The folder includes multiple national trees that can be selected, each functioning as independent nations.
The Faction Overview is a menu that helps navigation of a faction, but it isn’t indicative of research progression. That is shown in the national trees.
Faction Overview showing all vehicles of the faction in a structured and orgnized way by BR and class.
Regular national tree showing the research progression for a specific nations vehicles.
With the additional space gained for each nation, this makes research progression more logical too. British light tanks for example get a line for themselves instead of being squeezed into a South African line, while South Africa branches out more into Light tank, MBT, SPAA, etc. lines like other nations already do.
I see you put a lot of effort into your idea, and I do like specifically your idea for a faction symbol that can be useful in many cases, such as the RB battle statistics that can only show so many flags, or being shown when the Faction Overview is open.
I also liked the structure of your research system, but I also feel like it is probably best to keep research as familiar as possible to players since the rework already has a lot of significant changes.
But maybe you can make your own suggestion about it at some point?
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It would also serve well if we name the factions, for reference purposes, say zzz faction is better than xxx faction coz they have yyy and rrr nations. Like that.
My point being if we are going to change the tech trees around anyway and give freedom of choice to choose between nations then why give partial freedom let us choose between vehicles too.
I’m not too unhappy with the way things currently are so I’m not going to go out of my way to do that but it was worth a shot to see if you could get some new ideas or implement something from this. I’ll just be very happy if they just do the nation separation as I’m only interested in indian vehicles currently and the way things are right now they are probably going to add majority indian vehicles as event vehicles or premiums wheres if it comes as a techtree of itself then it’ll be somewhat balanced.
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Yep, would be way more convenient.
I’d leave the naming up to Gaijin here though, since historically we are at a dead end with “Commonwealth” not fitting the GB/ZA/IN faction likely won’t have all commonwealth nations, or “BeNeLux” can’t apply to FR/BE/NL/LU since France isn’t a part.
So what we need is probably some Wargame Red Dragon style fictional faction names and since I donn’t know what nations go where this is on Gaijin to choose.
Yeah, fair enough. But then again with separate trees come multiple lines of separate vehicle types anyways that should make it accessible enough.
India is one that I can see working out very well like this. I’d imagine with a rework we’ll see one at a time additions of new nations added like this and subtrees changed to the new format.
India is actually a good choice for this with the popular independent tree.
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I wonder WHEN we’ll see this in-game. Listen to the community!
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This is honestly a no-brainer addition. Especially regarding simulator. This would help a LOT in balancing that department of gameplay, especially for REDFOR which sometimes struggles to get enough players to even start a match. Especially at higher tiers where the only REDFOR options are China and Russia. Addition of Warsaw Pact countries would help a ton in this regard.
This could also add the possibility of adding new medals for countries + new profile pictures as well, with sub-nations having their own rewards. Gaijin already rewards people with achievements for playing certain sub-nations (Australin Ace, Hungarian Ace, Finnish Ace achievements on steam) so further rewards would be nice, and could incentivise people to play these sub-trees.
I highly support this, and find any opposition to this down-right silly and misguided.
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This is cool and all. However. Your suggestion doesn’t seem to address how this will affect matchmaking. If I, your most enthusiastic China player, wish to only play with my Chinese vehicles without the other China in my line-up what will happen when you-know-that-player decides to play with both China and the other China.
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The matchmaker forces me to play with both Chinas on the same team, making this suggestion slightly redundant when Gaijin could just add a much more simpler way of expanding the trees like just add another row or something. I can already only play with China if I want. But I can’t force myself onto matches with only 1 China on my side.
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All nations get split now. Sub-trees are there to complement nations so this doesn’t seem like a realistic option.
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MM Que is now made so if you’re playing with mixed line-ups, you will not get into a match with players who que for single nation line-ups. This seems like an ok option but prevents interesting stuff happening like say east Germany going against west Germany. Also ofc Gaijin can’t imagine a world where you take longer than a second to que.
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Opposite teams. You will now fight your own nation’s tanks. I’ll just say I dislike this heavily as realistic battles are already arcadified enough.
You’re missing a kind of interesting proposition here to allow combinations of nations that were historically under a treaty. That’d fix the issue of who should play with who and no more complaints about a certain nations not having the right equipment to compete with others. Though that’d require semi-historical MM which is another topic. Otherwise you end up with people choosing whatever they please and queing which would work with arcade but contradicts the very point of separating nations you want with this. Unless you play sim, it’ll only matter to that small playerbase.
This doesn’t seem like a research thing. You still need the right number of vehicles to progress yea? That seems a bit poorly explained but that’s how I understood it, looking at the F-86K image. Maybe I read over something?
It’d allow for more nation medals which is cool. Maybe profile pictures or something else. I think these are the actual benefits to get out of this. I just think this nation folders idea is kind of unneeded though if it’s just to make the hud more convoluded without any meaning. Simulator battles I guess but there’s simpler ways to fix that. Alvis already mentioned this but there’s more than enough room right now.
I guess if you look into the core of my word salad without the leaflet self biases and forceful topic changing I’m trying to say that it’s a great idea if it’d also allow minor nations to play on their own in realistic but otherwise right now as it is it just seems like an unnecessary change when the hud is in a pretty ok state.
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Fantasic ideas, but I gonna say it again, is Holland better for german sub tree?
For Matchmaking the general idea was that Simulartor mode could split nations further, matchmaking by individual nations.
This means in Simulator it is closest to this idea from you:
- All nations get split now. Sub-trees are there to complement nations so this doesn’t seem like a realistic option.
…Except nations still aren’t fully split. For example you might still play British and Canadian vehicles despite Indian vehicles being limited to the opposing side of the matchmaker.
This system would essentially work based on the preset lineups in Similator battles.
In Arcade battles subtrees would function the same as they do now, considering that there is no national matchmaking regardless.
In Realistic battles, matchmaking could be similar to what you described in:
- MM Que is now made so if you’re playing with mixed line-ups, you will not get into a match with players who que for single nation line-ups. This seems like an ok option but prevents interesting stuff happening like say east Germany going against west Germany. Also ofc Gaijin can’t imagine a world where you take longer than a second to que.
To preserve the functionality of subtrees, which in a major part is supporting eachothers capabilities, I don’t think the combined nation matchmaking should be completely disabled in Realistic battles.
But I could very much see a “soft” version of this system working, similar to how the current matchmaker prefers putting different nation in teams, but does regular or mixed teams if that’s not possible to save on queue times.
Basically the matchmaker could prefer the individual split nation matchmaking first, then regular matchmaking as we have now combining the foldered nations, and fully mixed battles last, depending on what games can be made with the players currently in the queue.
For air battles such a split might be easier, since every player only uses one vehicle, though this can still be disrupted by players in squads, same as the current matchmaker.
But since this suggestion is mainly about the setup of techtrees, giving more space and autonomy to both current “Main” and “Sub” nations matchmaking is only a side mention for now.
If such a system is implemented and we see more vehicles for these individual nations that make it possible for them to stand on their own, I might go over the idea of matchmaking again and make a separate proper suggestion for it.
I reread it, and it really isn’t explained well.
Unlocking a rank is done in one of two ways, depending on the amount of vehicles a nation has.
- If there is more than six researchable vehicles in a rank, you need to unlock six vehicles.
- If there is six or less researchable vehicles in a rank, you need to reaseach all researchable vehicles in that rank.
Once unlocked in any nation of a folder, all other nations in the same folder will have the same rank unlocked, allowing any foldered nation to be played as “main” nation, with selective use of others to strengthen lineups. This functionality I think is important to not take away from current subtrees, as well as make even smaller nations more viable to play.
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Hey everyone! I wanted to jump into this fantastic discussion (yet again) about the subtree rework and nation folders. Firstly, a big shout out to you for starting this thread and sharing your insightful thoughts—it’s clear you’ve put a lot of time and effort into considering this topic. (an other contributing members)
The concept of having subtrees as their own separate entities is really intriguing. It could significantly streamline the process and make it so much easier for us to access the vehicles we truly want, without having to grind through unrelated nations. This change could definitely make the game more enjoyable and player-friendly.
Furthermore, I think it could also help in balancing the game better. With more direct paths to the vehicles we prefer, the overall gaming experience would be more tailored and satisfying. This approach could lead to a more organized and intuitive structure, making it easier for both new and seasoned players to navigate the tech trees.
I feel that this should be strongly passed to development and integrated into the game as soon as possible.
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yes but move the Netherlands to Germany
That ship has already sailed.
not really
It’s already a French sub tree, it’s not going to happen.
It really shouldn’t.
The Dutch fought fiercly against the German forces, most of the fully unique domestic designs that the Dutch could provide would also be used against the Germans and Japanese during this period.
Even later on during the early cold war the Dutch were still very much independent. they had Belgian, French, British, Swedish and US technology and modified vehicles in service. Even the Leopard 2A5 and the Leopard 2A6M2 used by the Dutch were deployed in fully independent units. Only recently were the Dutch and German battalions working together closely.
The Dutch navy, where the most of fully unique domestic Dutch additions could be found, was also mostly geared towards a war against the German and Japanese navy. Considering the time period of naval vehicles in-game seen thus far (1912-1960s), this would mean rank I-IV of coastal and rank I-VI of Bluewater would be filled with ships which would have been deployed in actions alongside the French/British/US navy against the Germans/Japanese.
And then again, the German tech tree would never need another nation, there are hundreds of german vehicle left to add.
The best solution would be to supplement a Dutch tech tree with (an)other nation(s). This is where a Benelux tech tree would come in. Another option would have been to place the Dutch with a nation which would have been its ally throughout the duration of this game (like france). Or to split up the Dutch in a pre-cold war and a post-world war.
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nah, especially considering the Fokker connection. Culturally and vehicle wise, Germany would have made more sense.
A lot of it would’ve been copy and paste anyway, there was no point.
Old Forum Suggestion Archive
Since the old forum is planned to be deleted in June of this year, the original old Forum Subtree Rework suggestion will sadly be gone with it. To prevent it from being gone forever, it was archived and will stay accessible in the future.
Archived version of the original suggestion by @馮如
Sadly this Archive doesn’t load images, so the included Images are separately listed here, as well as a screenshotted version of the suggestion with the images in their context.
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Damn, I mean, aren’t a lot of these combinations confirmed now? Or might that just be a coincidence?
Either way, for BeNeLux it would be definitely my first favoured option for implementation, as of now there are more than a hundred unique vehicles that won’t be added from these 3 nations because of lack of need/space as they are a subtree (and even more that are modifications of already-in-game vehicles). The same holds true for the unconfirmed ‘subtree’ nations Switserland and (dominion of) Canada.
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