I wonder WHEN we’ll see this in-game. Listen to the community!
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This is honestly a no-brainer addition. Especially regarding simulator. This would help a LOT in balancing that department of gameplay, especially for REDFOR which sometimes struggles to get enough players to even start a match. Especially at higher tiers where the only REDFOR options are China and Russia. Addition of Warsaw Pact countries would help a ton in this regard.
This could also add the possibility of adding new medals for countries + new profile pictures as well, with sub-nations having their own rewards. Gaijin already rewards people with achievements for playing certain sub-nations (Australin Ace, Hungarian Ace, Finnish Ace achievements on steam) so further rewards would be nice, and could incentivise people to play these sub-trees.
I highly support this, and find any opposition to this down-right silly and misguided.
7 Likes
This is cool and all. However. Your suggestion doesn’t seem to address how this will affect matchmaking. If I, your most enthusiastic China player, wish to only play with my Chinese vehicles without the other China in my line-up what will happen when you-know-that-player decides to play with both China and the other China.
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The matchmaker forces me to play with both Chinas on the same team, making this suggestion slightly redundant when Gaijin could just add a much more simpler way of expanding the trees like just add another row or something. I can already only play with China if I want. But I can’t force myself onto matches with only 1 China on my side.
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All nations get split now. Sub-trees are there to complement nations so this doesn’t seem like a realistic option.
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MM Que is now made so if you’re playing with mixed line-ups, you will not get into a match with players who que for single nation line-ups. This seems like an ok option but prevents interesting stuff happening like say east Germany going against west Germany. Also ofc Gaijin can’t imagine a world where you take longer than a second to que.
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Opposite teams. You will now fight your own nation’s tanks. I’ll just say I dislike this heavily as realistic battles are already arcadified enough.
You’re missing a kind of interesting proposition here to allow combinations of nations that were historically under a treaty. That’d fix the issue of who should play with who and no more complaints about a certain nations not having the right equipment to compete with others. Though that’d require semi-historical MM which is another topic. Otherwise you end up with people choosing whatever they please and queing which would work with arcade but contradicts the very point of separating nations you want with this. Unless you play sim, it’ll only matter to that small playerbase.
This doesn’t seem like a research thing. You still need the right number of vehicles to progress yea? That seems a bit poorly explained but that’s how I understood it, looking at the F-86K image. Maybe I read over something?
It’d allow for more nation medals which is cool. Maybe profile pictures or something else. I think these are the actual benefits to get out of this. I just think this nation folders idea is kind of unneeded though if it’s just to make the hud more convoluded without any meaning. Simulator battles I guess but there’s simpler ways to fix that. Alvis already mentioned this but there’s more than enough room right now.
I guess if you look into the core of my word salad without the leaflet self biases and forceful topic changing I’m trying to say that it’s a great idea if it’d also allow minor nations to play on their own in realistic but otherwise right now as it is it just seems like an unnecessary change when the hud is in a pretty ok state.
1 Like
Fantasic ideas, but I gonna say it again, is Holland better for german sub tree?
For Matchmaking the general idea was that Simulartor mode could split nations further, matchmaking by individual nations.
This means in Simulator it is closest to this idea from you:
- All nations get split now. Sub-trees are there to complement nations so this doesn’t seem like a realistic option.
…Except nations still aren’t fully split. For example you might still play British and Canadian vehicles despite Indian vehicles being limited to the opposing side of the matchmaker.
This system would essentially work based on the preset lineups in Similator battles.
In Arcade battles subtrees would function the same as they do now, considering that there is no national matchmaking regardless.
In Realistic battles, matchmaking could be similar to what you described in:
- MM Que is now made so if you’re playing with mixed line-ups, you will not get into a match with players who que for single nation line-ups. This seems like an ok option but prevents interesting stuff happening like say east Germany going against west Germany. Also ofc Gaijin can’t imagine a world where you take longer than a second to que.
To preserve the functionality of subtrees, which in a major part is supporting eachothers capabilities, I don’t think the combined nation matchmaking should be completely disabled in Realistic battles.
But I could very much see a “soft” version of this system working, similar to how the current matchmaker prefers putting different nation in teams, but does regular or mixed teams if that’s not possible to save on queue times.
Basically the matchmaker could prefer the individual split nation matchmaking first, then regular matchmaking as we have now combining the foldered nations, and fully mixed battles last, depending on what games can be made with the players currently in the queue.
For air battles such a split might be easier, since every player only uses one vehicle, though this can still be disrupted by players in squads, same as the current matchmaker.
But since this suggestion is mainly about the setup of techtrees, giving more space and autonomy to both current “Main” and “Sub” nations matchmaking is only a side mention for now.
If such a system is implemented and we see more vehicles for these individual nations that make it possible for them to stand on their own, I might go over the idea of matchmaking again and make a separate proper suggestion for it.
I reread it, and it really isn’t explained well.
Unlocking a rank is done in one of two ways, depending on the amount of vehicles a nation has.
- If there is more than six researchable vehicles in a rank, you need to unlock six vehicles.
- If there is six or less researchable vehicles in a rank, you need to reaseach all researchable vehicles in that rank.
Once unlocked in any nation of a folder, all other nations in the same folder will have the same rank unlocked, allowing any foldered nation to be played as “main” nation, with selective use of others to strengthen lineups. This functionality I think is important to not take away from current subtrees, as well as make even smaller nations more viable to play.
5 Likes
Hey everyone! I wanted to jump into this fantastic discussion (yet again) about the subtree rework and nation folders. Firstly, a big shout out to you for starting this thread and sharing your insightful thoughts—it’s clear you’ve put a lot of time and effort into considering this topic. (an other contributing members)
The concept of having subtrees as their own separate entities is really intriguing. It could significantly streamline the process and make it so much easier for us to access the vehicles we truly want, without having to grind through unrelated nations. This change could definitely make the game more enjoyable and player-friendly.
Furthermore, I think it could also help in balancing the game better. With more direct paths to the vehicles we prefer, the overall gaming experience would be more tailored and satisfying. This approach could lead to a more organized and intuitive structure, making it easier for both new and seasoned players to navigate the tech trees.
I feel that this should be strongly passed to development and integrated into the game as soon as possible.
9 Likes
yes but move the Netherlands to Germany
That ship has already sailed.
not really
It’s already a French sub tree, it’s not going to happen.
It really shouldn’t.
The Dutch fought fiercly against the German forces, most of the fully unique domestic designs that the Dutch could provide would also be used against the Germans and Japanese during this period.
Even later on during the early cold war the Dutch were still very much independent. they had Belgian, French, British, Swedish and US technology and modified vehicles in service. Even the Leopard 2A5 and the Leopard 2A6M2 used by the Dutch were deployed in fully independent units. Only recently were the Dutch and German battalions working together closely.
The Dutch navy, where the most of fully unique domestic Dutch additions could be found, was also mostly geared towards a war against the German and Japanese navy. Considering the time period of naval vehicles in-game seen thus far (1912-1960s), this would mean rank I-IV of coastal and rank I-VI of Bluewater would be filled with ships which would have been deployed in actions alongside the French/British/US navy against the Germans/Japanese.
And then again, the German tech tree would never need another nation, there are hundreds of german vehicle left to add.
The best solution would be to supplement a Dutch tech tree with (an)other nation(s). This is where a Benelux tech tree would come in. Another option would have been to place the Dutch with a nation which would have been its ally throughout the duration of this game (like france). Or to split up the Dutch in a pre-cold war and a post-world war.
2 Likes
nah, especially considering the Fokker connection. Culturally and vehicle wise, Germany would have made more sense.
A lot of it would’ve been copy and paste anyway, there was no point.
Old Forum Suggestion Archive
Since the old forum is planned to be deleted in June of this year, the original old Forum Subtree Rework suggestion will sadly be gone with it. To prevent it from being gone forever, it was archived and will stay accessible in the future.
Archived version of the original suggestion by @馮如
Sadly this Archive doesn’t load images, so the included Images are separately listed here, as well as a screenshotted version of the suggestion with the images in their context.
5 Likes
Damn, I mean, aren’t a lot of these combinations confirmed now? Or might that just be a coincidence?
Either way, for BeNeLux it would be definitely my first favoured option for implementation, as of now there are more than a hundred unique vehicles that won’t be added from these 3 nations because of lack of need/space as they are a subtree (and even more that are modifications of already-in-game vehicles). The same holds true for the unconfirmed ‘subtree’ nations Switserland and (dominion of) Canada.
5 Likes
Maybe try a browser add-on named Singlefile. I just saved all of vehicle suggestion of old forum with it including images which still available now.(Sadly some images on hosting sites are no longer available now)
It’a really big file folder with 42GB!
Maybe i should save non-vehicle suggestions now.
Maybe we should make a updated version for 2025…
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I made one that shows all current subtrees, as well as possible future subtrees as long as they have either been soft confirmed through game additions or are often discussed subtree options.
I just generally wasn’t sure where to put many countries. For example a LATAM subtree for Israel seems popular, but I wasn’t sure what nations to include besides Chile, and for USA while there are many options I wanted to consider other nations first. For post-Soviet states I was also not sure, so I included the non-NATO ones for now.
I also tried to stay clear of controversy, and tried to avoid personal bias. So for example with the ASEAN subtree for Japan I excluded Singapore and Malaysia for now and only included the relatively agreed upon Indonesia and Philippines.
So that should explain why many options that might seem obvious to some are missing. I’ll try to expand it in the future and would be happy to hear any feedback to help improve it!
I also made a version that only lists confirmed subtrees (And whatever Canada / Australia are)
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New Zealand for UK as there’s already 2 vehicles in game?
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Updated o7
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My honest opinion:
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