Welcome to the wt forums where prejudices and lack of common sense intertwine into illogical discussions.
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you guys forgot the one rule “do not engage the trolls” after a while he will be bored. I swear many troll in war thunder forum just there to steer the whole topic away
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are the trolls in the room with us now?
you dont know what your talking about but sure. go with numbers.
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Ehhh like? Yeah it has better radars, but I dunno if i would say it has outright better situational awareness.
Like, you talk a lot about the various functions of the Su-57’s RF suite, but then you ignore to mentiom that the F-22 has like systems for many of them. IE in addition to its 6 RWR recievers, it has 12 high band and 8 low band azimuth + elevation direction finding antenna. Or its 10 Log-periodic ECM transmitter antenni. Or that it does have a very good optical MAWS.
Like, im not saying the Su-57’s radar suite isn’t better. But the F-22’s isnt aging that poorly. It just uses a lot more passive functions then the Su-57’s active ones. Which are kinda fitting for how hard it leans into stealth, as opposed to the Su-57 being a radar platform with a dash of stealth added.
come on, su-57 was designed from the ground up to be stealthy
why this rumor even persists idek
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Its not that its not stealthy at all, its that its not hard focused on stealth like the F-22 is.
Like, with 12(?) onboard AESAs, thats a lot of emitted radiation. Im sure it has adaptive sidelobe cancelation like the F-35, but still.
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thats true, strict emission control is important for stealth activities. thats why they gave the F-22 such an advanced ECM/RWR for passive information, and now they are making an IRST pod and IRDS upgrades for it
XDDDD
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Haha. Reminds of a certain plane that caused US to build F-15
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given the topic has switched more towards a rcs and actual stealth view id like to show the class some infographics
RCS information and analyis
here you can see the median, of the rcs values as well as a graph. now it may not be perfect but its pretty good and well modeled. i also want everyone to know a median RCS is much better representative of actual RCS compared to 1% lows such as the case of the f35 being 0.00075m^2 or about -31 DBSM and average RCS figures. this is because average will have some clear outliers which can hurt overall understanding between each and 1% lows are very scarce but sure it could be compared.
for those who dont know this is a simulation done by a group of 3 individuals that seem to not have bias and made this for understanding RCS figures. this simulation also assumes the su57 has ram on its engine radar blockers where as everything else is just metal, so no polymers, no ram for the f35 etc or radar reflecting canopies.
now looking at the data its clear the f35 is far superior in frontal aspect stealth compared to both the j20 and su57 through every band except VHF which is primarily used as a detection or communication band. targeting doesnt really happen until S band but in the case of 5th gen fighters almost all targeting is done via X band where the ranking is su57<j20<f35. this means the f35 would far exceed any others in pure detection and targeting given it has the advantage of not being seen but can see if that makes sense.
obviously thats not all to stealth but that shows in general the RCS you can expect to see from these aircraft ingame and probably what everyone else cares about.
IR information and analyis
now onto IR stealth a really good read i highly suggest reading through this btw.
here you can see above the stealth nozzles on the f35 you notice 1 they are slotted and have holes through them, 2 you notice they are triangular in shape which is designed to reduce radar diffractions, 3 you may notice the outer opening around the nozzle.
first they are slotted in such a way that they absorb more infrared coming the the exhaust of the f35 and has a bit of air bypass through them which allows for a reduction in IR from basically every aspect except front.
second the triangular shape again is made to help with radar diffractions which is why the B2 and new B21 + all the CCA and stealth concepts and prototypes have triangular rear ends this essentially reduces detection from all observation angles making said plane stealthier
third the opening around the exhaust this is purely for reducing IR signature as the cold surrounding is shoved into the body of the f35 and through these vents and purposely around the engine to mix the hot exhaust with cold outside air to lower the IR signature.
the f35 also has some sort cooler in the turbine section further reducing IR which to my knowledge only the F22 and f35 have these in their exhaust and can also act as a rear aspect radar blocker like the su57’s intakes
also due to the design of the f22 and f35 their fuselage blocks a large portion of their exhaust stream, notice how their nozzles are hidden within the airframe compared to a su57 where the engines are almost entirely exposed, this is also true for the F15 and flanker variants.
The f35 and f22 both have IR reducing paint this is not common knowledge and unknown if adversaries process the same qualities
Conclusion and what does this mean for the raptor? (read prior)
so this means the f22 is without a doubt stealthier than the su57 and j20 for that matter. in radio emissions, IR and targeting/detection. could the su57 or j20 have a better radar suite than the F22? yea of course they “could” but that doesnt mean the f22 wont fire at you 7 days till sunday while your busy over there searching with rwr pings coming from a different direction every couple minutes. the F22 is a fast mover you may think you have it but let it turn a bit and watch it disappear. then be pulling up under you inspecting your weapon load preaching you otta go home. but seriously the f22 is purebred stealth its passive systems are best in class maybe behind the f35’s but so good that even if it is lacking in the active department its so far ahead passively that it can kick back and watch you fight while your still there hoping for a blip on radar.
MiG-25 was purely US overestimates though. The Soviets didn’t lie about that specifically
Why are you using T-50? Have you even read the thread?.. This people can’t be serious at this point.
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Su-57 is not really stealthy. There are just 25-30 of these built. Without new additions for quite a while.
Imho thats already the end of the discussion.
comparing number of build is a stupid argument. a reminder that russia work alone with small budget, unlike the huge budget of the united states.
su57 have advantage over others, sure its not stealth.
they are nearly the same aircraft but you missed that the engine nozzles (not the actual surface the engines are connected too are far more exposed at all angels compared to the f35 and f22
None of that matters when the SU-57 has a radar cross section of an F-18
Stealth coating is not always fully applied on non-war time F-22s. It’s expensive and the coating degrade fast. This proves nothing.
… for a t-50 that is missing a lot of the stuff that su-57 has in service.
here’s the patent btw
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