My answer above.
Lol, Sure bro.
Its been a nice talk.
this is what you acctually said
you are doing the exact same
Guys, please keep discussions civil and respectful. There is no need to devolve the topic.
3 Likes
And that what i said it, and i was COMPELTELY correct, if the aircraft is at 12.7 like F15, its BR define what kind of armament it got, And when u look at it, U get 4 AIM7 and 4 AIM9M`s, and that proves my point.
well now that you are here
Will the Su-39 get any form of radar missiles?
Agree!
we just discussing in details, about each others opinions, sorry if there was something Unsuitable here.
the Su-27 is at 13.0 and it has the R-27ER which is found at 12.7 and no Fox-3 which is a 13.0 Armament
As we mentioned previously, currently at least, this is not planned. Like many other aircraft, suggestion reports exist for the missiles, but it comes down to the developers discretion.
Loadouts are always subject to future changes however.
3 Likes
It will at some point. Sooner or later.
1 Like
Thank you smin for clarifying.
And that is our primary subject of discussion!
and what about aircraft getting their A2A missiles limited to a lower ammount that they could actually carry so that they might be at a lower br?
The total number of missiles available to an aircraft may also be subject to balancing decisions too yes.
6 Likes
Exactly!
Thanks for clarifying!
It’s a subsonic platform. So they’d still be much less effective.
Additionally, they have to trade things like the Vikhirs for 2x R-27s
Meaning that you would lose 10 proxy fuse munitions.
So no, there is no reason for it to be 12.3 as it quite literally would be less effective.
It should have an actual reason outside of identification for using the Radar.
So… buff it.
2x R27s aren’t going to be a massive difference in performance.
Hell, R-27ERs would only be effective versus noobs.
As it stand however it NEEDS the ability to defend itself frontally at range.
Because I kill them with my F-4S all the time, they’re easy snacks.
2 Likes
Might be good in RB
But it’s not great in AB
And it’s almost terrible in sim.
For comparison…
A-10C gets 4x Aim-9m and so on, with a IFF pingless HMD (which is super OP)
Hello, I want to address some of the Problems with Su-39 ( Su-25TM ) currently presented in war thunder.
The Su-39 is a Russian Multi role strike aircraft in war thunder current BR is making the aircraft Unsuitable for its Multi role Missions, Currently Its 11.7 BR in ground and 11.3 in air, the aircraft gets up tiered heavily, and meets a vastly superior enemies, Dont get me wrong, the aircraft is fine, but the main problem is its current battle rating, Before at 11.3 in ground it was much better and suitable, Because it did not face the IRIST neither Some ARH Top tier aircraft missiles or super sonic aircraft threats when it gets uptiered.
Now when it gets uptiered After the new BR present, it constantly face those superior threats, Its a subsonic Multi role Aircraft, and a dedicated Anti armor capability gets overwhelmed when it faces those two, Gaijin did not provide it with a dedicated air to air armaments like R-27R\ER or R-77, Since it does have the Kopyo radar pod its fully compatible and able to destroy those targets, but even tho I wont recommend providing it with ARH missiles like R-77 since it will increase its BR significantly, Its more recommended to get the R-27R, since it will be more suitable for its current BR placement, And it wont be a problem for other Foe aircrafts to destroy either, While on the other hand some users of the same aircraft may argue: " but it has Vihkr Pods that also have proxy fuse to engage aerial and ground targets, its basically a jack of all trades" While its true, its not necessarily reliable, the Vihkr Missiles does not have Proportional navigation neither High G pull, its been primarily made and designed to engage low flying targets such as helicopters and Ground armored or fortified targets.
Another option its R-73 Missile with thrust vectoring capability, currently, its not modelled correctly like its real world counter part, In real life it had much more suitable thrust vectoring and Counter Countermessure capability And energy management, Unlike in war thunder, there is a high chance in-game that it miss its targets, Only if the target has a high Heat signature or Went side ways or have a specific amount of flares that is not enough to fool the missile away, The Su-39 ( Su-25TM ) was also planned and equipped to carry the upgraded export variant of the R-73, known as the R-73E, which had more Counter Countermessure capability and Aerial maneuvering to manage targets movement at close distance dogfight. Since I mentioned the R-73, In game War thunder currently Presented Su-39 with 2x R-73 And 2x R-60M, while In real life it was able to carry Up to 4x R-73.
In War thunder currently, There is much more Armaments that it did not get yet, Such as: Kh-25MT, Kh-25MTP, And The full loadout of both Kh-25ML and S-25L and the Upgraded version S-25LD variant that is not currently in its loadout in war thunder, While the other weapons may get added in near\far future as shown in those bug reports: Community Bug Reporting System, And Community Bug Reporting System, and Community Bug Reporting System.
And for its mechanics, The Aircraft is missing: the high-end Khod thermal imaging container, forcing players to rely on the lower-resolution or specific optical setups provided by the Mercury low-light TV pod or standard optics depending on operational conditions, And its missing: “Kinzhal” (Dagger) Millimeter-Wave Radar Pod Developed in tandem with the Khod, this was a specialized high-resolution millimeter-wave radar container tested in 1993. It was designed for ultra-precise ground mapping to detect hidden armored columns, And of course on of the most Interesting Pods that it had is: “Omul” ECM Pods, In real-life photographs and display layouts, the Su-39 is frequently seen with Omul electronic countermeasure (ECM) pods attached to its outermost wing tips for specialized radar-jamming. And of course the The Shkval Optics Unit (Missing the “M” Upgrade) Which is also not presented in war thunder, In-Game Su-39 uses the exact same base-model Shkval optical television system found on the older Su-25T, The real Su-39 featured the modernized Shkval-M suite. This system didn’t just add a higher zoom; it featured a 23x image magnification tracker capable of locking and stabilizing onto moving targets up to 25 km away. The in-game optical zoom and locking range are significantly worse than the aircraft’s historical capabilities. Since we mentioned the Targeting pods, I want to address that the real-world Su-39 (Su-25TM) was equipped with a Helmet-Mounted Display (HMD), which is completely missing in War Thunder, Historically, the aircraft utilized the ZSh-5MKV flight helmet integrated with the NVU-M helmet-mounted target designation sight. The real-world system did not just track where the pilot was looking to point a missile seeker. The onboard SUO-39P fire control system linked the pilot’s helmet tracking sensors directly to both the R-73 missile seekers and the internal Shkval/Shkval-M optical tracking system. A pilot could turn their head, look at an enemy tank or aircraft over their shoulder, press a button on the flight stick, and the aircraft’s main optics or missiles would instantly snap to and lock onto that exact point, While in war thunder, The Su-39 does not have an HMD interface at all. If you want to acquire a lock with the R-73 or point your Shkval camera at a target, you are forced to maneuver the entire nose of the plane until the target falls into the narrow box of your Head-Up Display (HUD), or manually slew the camera using a joystick/mouse, Gaijin omitted the HMD on the Su-39 largely because they used the baseline cockpit and avionics profile of the standard Su-25T (which lacked it) when building the premium aircraft.
And another important thing i noticed: Radar Pod Mechanics (Kopyo-25 Functional Omissions): In game, the Kopyo-25 radar container exists under the hull, its actual mechanics are restricted. It operates as a rudimentary tracking radar that lets you pick up air targets and fire beam-riding missiles through clouds, In Reality, The Kopyo-25 radar suite was a fully integrated element of the SUO-39P fire control matrix. It possessed complex Look-Down/Shoot-Down (LDSD) capabilities, map-overlay ground moving target indicators (GMTI), and advanced maritime tracking filters tailored specifically for tracking fast-moving surface vessels while ignoring heavy sea clutter mechanics that are either entirely missing or oversimplified in the game engine.
and for the Vihkrs, there is an Alternative Vikhr Placement Pods, Historically, the aircraft’s multi-missile Vikhr launching pods could be mounted on alternative, flexible hardpoints (like the 3rd innermost pylon instead of just the 2nd). This allowed room to carry additional heavy anti-radiation or anti-ship missiles like the Kh-31, Which such details are not seen in War Thunder.
And of course, One of the details are: Artificially Punishing “Vikhr” Launch Constraints: In War Thunder, the Vikhr anti-tank guided missiles feature an extremely narrow tracking and launch envelope. If you pitch or roll the nose slightly away from the target, the missile immediately loses its laser tracking guidance beam and falls out of the sky, When in real life The upgraded automated fire control computer on the Su-39 was designed to talk dynamically with the weapon pylons. The Vikhr launchers could dynamically communicate with the tracking suite, allowing the pilot to make aggressive evasive maneuvers and bank the aircraft while the automated system maintained a steady laser guidance beam link on the target coordinate.
And for an important note about its flight and structural characteristics that is modelled incorrectly in game: No real-world incidents exist where an Su-39 ripped its wings off due to high speed, In war thunder, It simulates the plane based on a count where if the plane exceeds that specific previously Adjusted count by the developers, it will Rip its wings off, which is totally Incorrect, In Real Life (Strictly Subsonic), The Su-39 is powered by non-afterburning R-195 turbojets and has a maximum speed limit of around 950–1,000 km/h (roughly Mach 0.82). Like the base Su-25 “Frogfoot”, it features a highly rugged, heavily armored airframe designed to survive battlefield damage and high-G maneuvers. In level flight, its engines simply do not produce enough thrust to push the aircraft past its structural limits, However in war thunder Currently on the other hand: (The “Wing Rip” Phenomenon):** In the game’s Realistic and Simulator battles, the Su-39 features a hard wing-rip threshold slightly above 950-1,000 km/h Indicated Air Speed (IAS). Because players frequently dive from high altitudes or down steep hills to attack ground targets while leaving the throttle at 100%, gravity allows the heavy plane to easily exceed its structural limits, Leading to the Wings Ripping off easily, In real life there was no incidents where the Su-39 ( Su-25TM ) Ripped its wings off.
and for an extra info regarding its Heat signature, lets call it: Engine Heat Signatures vulnerability, In-Game The Su-39 runs incredibly hot in the game engine. Even when chopping the throttle down to specific percentages, the aircraft retains thermal energy for a period, making it a massive heat source that all-aspect infrared (IR) missiles can easily track and lock onto, In Reality The Su-39 was designed from the ground up to operate over highly contested, missile-dense front lines. Its specialized R-195 turbojets utilized an advanced infrared-suppressive cooling configuration. The system injected cold ambient air via a dedicated air scoop directly into the exhaust stream, while an integrated central tail-cone physically shielded the red-hot turbine face from a direct rear line-of-sight. This passive cooling assembly successfully reduced the infrared signature of the rear fuselage by roughly 36% compared to a baseline Su-25.
And for its Bombs, The Su-39 Had the capability to also carry the Famous КАБ-500Кр (Standard TV-Guided High-Explosive/Penetration version) Or the КАБ-500-ОД (TV-Guided Thermobaric / Fuel-Air Explosive version) for more flexible mission loadout.
And for its Armoring and structural integrity, the Su-39 (Su-25TM) possesses incredibly high structural integrity and was historically designed to act as a “flying tank,” but its ability to survive multiple hits differ between real life and War Thunder. ( An important Note: the Su-39 (Su-25TM) was designed to be structurally stronger and much more survivability-focused in real life than how it performs in War Thunder. )
It features a heavy 24mm titanium cockpit bathtub and internal steel shielding that makes it virtually immune to small arms fire and light autocannons up to 23mm, allowing it to take scattered hits that would instantly shred regular fighter jets. When it comes to infrared MANPADS and light ground-launched missiles like Stingers, its survival rate is excellent because the thick armor isolating the twin engines means an explosion in one exhaust nozzle rarely spreads to the other, frequently allowing you to lose an entire engine and still limp all the way back to base. However, it cannot handle everything; sustained bursts from rapid-fire SPAAGs like the Gepard will eventually shred your unarmored tail controls or spark a massive fuel fire, while heavy radar-guided SAMs and high-explosive fighter cannons bypass your armor entirely by detonating massive proximity warheads that will snap your wings off or ruin your aerodynamics. Because the plane is so heavy and lacks afterburners, any major wing damage turns it into a slow brick that quickly loses speed and crashes, meaning that while your pilot will easily survive the shrapnel inside the armored tub, the aircraft itself will struggle to stay in the air after taking heavy missile hits.
The Reinforced Wing Structure the Su-39 program featured, Was heavily modified and strengthened wing design compared to the baseline Su-25. This was intentionally done to allow it to bear the aerodynamic stress of carrying heavy active-radar missiles like the R-77 and massive anti-ship munitions. In War Thunder, its wings are highly prone to ripping under high speed or heavy G-loads, treating the reinforced structure exactly like the weaker base-model Frogfoots.
And Importantly the true system redundancies, In real life, the Su-39 had completely isolated, multi-layered structural systems. If a shell pierced one side of the engine bay, the specialized armor plates prevented fire from crossing over, and mechanical push-rods were duplicated across separate sides of the airframe. In the game, aircraft components share a simplified damage model matrix; taking hits to the center fuselage frequently cuts all tail control lines simultaneously or triggers an unextinguishable fuel fire that kills the plane in seconds. and I want to also include the weight-to-thrust penalty which In the real world, if an Su-39 lost half its wing surface to a missile, the aircraft’s high engine thrust and aerodynamic lift could occasionally keep it stable enough to glide or limp home. In War Thunder’s physics engine, losing even a small tip of a wing completely kills your lift generation. Because the plane is incredibly heavy due to its internal armor, any structural damage turns the jet into a non-responsive “brick” that immediately bleeds speed, stalls out, and crashes, Which yeah is annoying.
and that is my personal opinion point of view, correct me if there is mistakes.
