ive payed a lot of money for a useless, castrated plane…
I see the enemy and the TV rockets doesnt track the enemy, so that im at about 6km where he gets a track, to close to escape stingers and so on
The Su-39 is the Su-25TM.
The SU-25TM was never fitted with the Kopyo radar pod, they share the same serial number but historically were equipped with different loadouts.
Whatever the Su-39 carries, the Su-25TM does as well.
I don’t know how to put this…
They’re the same plane
Historically they had the same loadouts because they are the same exact plane.
Historically they had the same loadouts because they are the same exact plane
No
The SU-25TM and SU-39 are the same aircraft with different loadouts, the SU-39 was intended for export customers and was fitted with R-27s and R-77s unlike the SU-25TM.
Simplified: The SU-25TM was given A2A capabilities to please the export market (now called the SU-39), the SU-25TM was never fitted with the Kopyo, R-27s and R-77 in Russian service for obvious reason.
The SU-39s pre production designation was the T8TM-3 unlike the SU-25TMs T-8TM.
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Both the T-8TM-3 and T-8TM-4 were able to carry Kopyo, and T-8TM-3 was presented as Su-25TM as МАКС ʼ95, while TM-4 was the only one to be shown as “Su-39” in 1999… With the same exact radar pod underneath.
Both were presented with R-77s, both were presented with Kopyo.
The initial Su-39 was designated as T-8TM-4, and was names so due to its fire control system. That was the only modification to the Su-39, and was made to smooth out flaws with integration of the MSP-410 jamming pod shown on T-8TM-3.
The current one we have in-game is TM-3, on the basis of camouflage emulation and weaponry. It was known as both Su-25TM and Su-39, hence the statement that they are the same.
If you are able to find me a single picture of a SU-25TM and it clearly being designated the SU-25TM carrying either the Kopyo, R-27 and/or R-77s I’ll take everything back and if not that’s a you issue.
White 20 has always been and still is referred to as an Su-25TM. You would obviously known this if you dug into the variants of the T-8TM series, and it doesn’t need to be substantiated when it was never known as an Su-39 to begin with.
How about you find me a single mention of Su-25TM / bort White 20 not being an Su-25TM, but instead being an Su-39 solely and having systems that no variant of Su-25TM (barring itself) has.
Then, show me the actual Su-39, present with the systems it was named after, that most definitely is outfitted with the same exact systems.
Hell, bonus points if you can find imagery of T-8TM-6… Point deduction will occur if you cannot find an image of it with systems not shared by White 20.
T-8TM-3 was presented as Su-25TM as МАКС ʼ95
“The plant produced the pre-production T8TM-3 aircraft, which made its first flight on August 15, 1995. From the same year, the vehicle received a new official name Su-39” - ISBN 5901668014
T-8TM-4, and was names so due to its fire control system
Yes, it was fitted with the SUO-39P weapon control system (kinda sounds like the… SU-39???)
The initial Su-39 was designated as T-8TM-4
The initial SU-39 was designated as T8TM-3 which was produced at the Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant, it was later renamed the SU-39 following test flights (after August 15th but before December 31st) in 1995, the “SU-25TM” could’ve been used as a placeholder.
I couldn’t find when the T8TM-3 was designated the SU-39 specifically but the timeline is either between August 15th and December 31st (100% sure) so for the time being it wouldn’t be unrealistic for it to be designated the SU-25TM for the time being which is kinda similar to the MiG-35s case.
It’s like calling the MiG-35D the MiG-29M
The one and only mention of the Su-39 in Bedretdinov’s book is in a summary list, verbatim;
В частности, появился новый материал по самолетам Су-25К (кора-бельный), Су-25ТМ (Су-39), Су-25СМ, Су-25УБМ. Большое количество дополнений было внесено в уже пред-ставленные материалы по другим модификациям штур-мовика, таких как Су-25УБ, Су-28, Су-25БМ, Су-25УТГ и Су-25Т.
And… And hear me out here… What do you make of the T-8TM-3’s SUO-25?
Are you getting this from topwar…? Copy-pasting exactly what you’re saying brings me to it, and it’s mentioned that the Su-39 is still ongoing.
Both Mladenov and Bedretdinov refer to them as Su-25TMs, Mladenov directly naming T8TM-3 as an Su-25TM.
Even Ruslet agrees…
První sériový Su-25TM (Frogfoot C) vešel ve známost pod továrním kódem T8TM-3 a do oblak se poprvé vydal dne 15. srpna 1995.
And even today on every aircraft database, Bort White 20 / airframe 03007 is referred to as an Su-25TM.
Not quite. I’d say it’s more like T-72BU / T-90.
In the sense that it’s still a T-72, the T8TM-3 variant is still an Su-25TM variant. It can arguably be considered an Su-39 in the succeeding TM-4 / TM-6 variants, but it’s still a T-72 in design.
Later in variants it may also be considered an Su-39 on top of being an Su-25TM, much like the initial T-90, as all it contains are technological upgrades.
Even then, the Su-39 in-game is the textbook Su-25TM as well, being the only one to test its equipment in a live-setting instead of show it off as static displays as TM-2 had done.
You may also argue that TM-1 would be the only “true” Su-25TM by authenticity, but this was recycled into TM-4.
Either way, our in-game Su-39 is a 25TM by designation (arguably, we’ve shown that its name is contentious) and is that of TM-3, and hence if an Su-25TM of the TM-2 to the TM-6 were to release, it would house the same exact loadouts of R-77s, R-73s, Kh-58s, Kh-35s, and so on.
If you are so sure the vehicle we have in-game is the SU-25TM how about you make a bug report? You seem overly passionate (obviously isn’t a bad), if I am indeed mistaken which I doubt then it should be corrected and renamed SU-25TM in-game.
Are you getting this from topwar…?
No, I did NOT getting this from Topwar lmao, everything I said was my own interpretation from both public information and Bedretdinovs book on the SU-25. Aka it was typed by me and wasn’t a copy and paste at all.
Kh-58s, Kh-35s
More like a handpicked SU-39 based on what Gaijin deems balanced lol, half of the potential loadout the SU-39 has in real life is present in-game.
Not quite. I’d say it’s more like T-72BU / T-90
Ong
And even today on every aircraft database, Bort White 20 / airframe 03007 is referred to as an Su-25TM
White 21 in MAKS 2005 Airshow was represented as the Cy-39 and/or SU-39.
And… And hear me out here… What do you make of the T-8TM-3’s SUO-25?
Mistaken identity 😅
To be completely fair my main concern is the lack of ordinance on the SU-39 compared to its real life counterpart, the actual name of the aircraft whether its the SU-25TM or SU-39 doesn’t really bother me.
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I don’t care if it’s corrected or not, when the time comes to add other Su-25TM variants the distinction may be good to make.
Then again, I might make one when I get home.
I’m mainly this passionate because it’s what gives me the motivation to read books and citations on the topic. That, and I enjoyed debate clubs when I was younger xD
Alright, I was about to say. It looked very much like the excerpt from there, specifically due to the order of information you put in the sentence.
What page are you seeing from Bedretdinovs book? I don’t see any mention of T-8M-10, T-8TM-3/4, nor the Su-39 apart from the excerpt I quoted.
Exactly. I’d love some anti-ship weapons, primarily the mentioned Kh-35, because many simulator modes contain ships and carriers that you need to get close to kill, as well as fire EVERYTHING you have just to guarantee a kill.
True, though White 21 is T-8TM-4. That’s what I personally see as the “original” Su-39, and why I’m saying that both the Su-25TM (8TM-3) and Su-39 (8TM-4) have the same weaponry.
If you look at TM-3 from prior MAKS showings, it has somewhat similar loadouts as TM-4 from '99.
Both TM-3 (White 20) and TM-4 (White 21) have R-77s, ECM pods, and Kopyo.
TM-3 is carrying R-27’s, however. SUO-25 / SUO-39 should not restrict the ability to fire R-77s and R-27s from earlier Su-25TM models.
I’d love to see a true Su-39 added to the tree, maybe under the Su-25T, and if that happens I do plan on differentiating that by a but report for the premium Su-39 to be changed to Su-25TM.
Or vice-versa, where the premium is changed to emulate TM-4 and a TT variant may be TM-3 or TM-6, which is pictured here as Black 21.
I doubt that’ll happen, though, because the premium would need minor changes to be historic to TM-4 / TM-6.
Alright, I was mainly basing my argument on the statement that the Su-25TM and Su-39 don’t carry the same equipment. Looks like we broke even on that.
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Do you know anything of these errors? It keeps creating a new ID every time it happens, so it doesn’t seem to be a specific error code, only a set ID.
Alright, I was mainly basing my argument on the statement that the Su-25TM and Su-39 don’t carry the same equipment. Looks like we broke even on that
I think we’ve met the consensus that the SU-25TM and SU-39 function as the same aircraft with 1 obviously for export markets and the other domestic. Both share identical loadouts besides different weapon control systems like we both mentioned (SUO-25 & SUO-39P) but this shouldn’t hinder the ability to fire the R-27s and R-77s.
Big two being White 21 (SU-39) and White 20 (SU-25TM)
it has somewhat similar loadouts as TM-4 from '99
Has the T-8TM3 been pictured with identical loadouts compared to the T-8TM4 or is it just similar? If so that would help with the addition of a SU-25TM in the tech tree with superior A2A capabilities or slightly different loadouts if the RVV-AE would be too much.
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Absolutely no clue on that one.
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Not identical in the sense that they’ve equipped the same exact loadout, though throughout the decade or so that they were showcased they had the same systems attached.
Both have R-77s, both have the same MPS-410 ECM pod, both can carry Khod, Kopyo, and Mercury (Khod and Mercury are entirely mixed-up in-game). Both have been seen with Kh-31, Kh-35, Kh-58, R-73s, and Vikhrs.
I can’t find any 2 pictures brandishing the exact same loadout in the exact same configuration, but both have shown systems that each other has held.
As far as I can see the SUO-39 FCS has the upside of working in conjuction with Shkval-M to guide laser-guided bombs. This was designed and produced in 1999, and was used on TM-4 and TM-6, both Su-39s.
Laser guided bombs can be seen in one of my previous images of Su-39 21 White. Looks to be a KAB-500L
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As far as I can see the SUO-39 FCS has the upside of working in conjuction with Shkval-M to guide laser-guided bombs. Looks to be a KAB-500L
So that would be the only difference in loadout then I’d assume, this should totally be present in-game. Would you be able to bug report this as I am horrible at those kind of stuff? Seems like Gaijin just forgot about this or something…
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Sure, I’ll DM you
Kopyo was tested only on T-8TM-4
Funny, I thought T-8TM-4 was 1 of 3 models at MAKS with Kopyo attached.