weird how post stall and vls maneuvering are cut out from the chart, which is where the su30sm beats the su33 you mentioned due to thrust vectoring… conviently left out as usual to provide a false image of maneuverability.
yes pls, go and do tvc/post stall maneuvers in air rb to get maybe 1 kill and right after be killed by some other 2 guys flying at mach jesus
thats why it is irrelevant to mention tvc/post stall maneuvers,what matters in air rb is how well your plane can turn and maintain speed, two things the su30sm is not so good at (to be fair, it turns very well, but the reason for that is that you are constantly losing a lot of speed…one more thing that you can’t recover fast enough -speed-)
why am i explaining this to you? YOU KNOW THIS ffs
if the su30sm was at least on par with the su27sm str i would be ok with that, but be on par with the su33 is not something good.
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post stall maneuvering definetly matters especially in dogfights. get slow, put an r73 in the ass of your enemy and continue
apart from that the people who want to ratefight for 3 minutes are the ones who also eat missiles despite being “fast”
again; your point was that the su30sm isn’t realistic because it maneuvers worse than su33 however it is realistic because it maneuvers better than su33 where it should but now you changed your argument into “thats meaningless”
however thats just realism for you. again, if you dont like the russian doctrine for how they use r73’s and the jet was made for one circle then go play eurofighter. it never is and has been a two circle fighter jet and wont be, it would be unrealistic.
so, eat it up and also the su30sm shines in bvr so pointless to complain about needing the best dogfighter anyway
D: exactly, but not for air rb since what matters there is how fast you can notch and still being able to maintain/recover your speed
no it wasn’t, my point was that the STR should be better, or at least it should be expected to be better, the SU33 is old and fat, at least I would rather assume the SU30SM solved the problems the SU33 had.
my original point was: why do you keep questioning the su30sm’s FM if you also have no proof to say that it’s “accurate” now? And again, do you really believe the su30sm should perform on par with the su33? well then russia should keptusing the damn su33 and upgrade their radar and put tvc on it since a 1998 airframe is the same as a 2012 one.
no one (at least not me) wants the su30 to be the best dogfighter in the game (but for sure you aint complaining about the EF and Rafale), i would like the plane to not fall out of the sky after 2 turns, thank you.
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notching wise considering the missile tti’s and the advantange of having significantly more missiles on su30sm than things like eurofighter youre going to have the advantange of firing at kmax and you will have sufficient time to notch and recover speed and also get the kill
so youre just assuming more numbers mean better thrust to weight ratio, yet the su30sm had so bad twr that they had to design an additional upgrade later on to try and get a better thrust to weight ratio, wouldnt be needed if it was already good enough.
and the question as to why we dont have that in war thunder and instead have an early variant is because su30sm is not in need of buffs, it kills in bvr.
complain to the people who made the aircraft then. they made a 1 circle fighter out of it.
or, or, just hear me out, lower drag.
i would gladly trade the double r77 pylons for the lighter and better new radar and al-41 engines, the rafale isnt the “early” variant in the game either.
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I’d rather just the new engines instead of adding Irbis also (from what I gathered though, should perform similar to Bars but with better gimbal and range)
which comes at the cost of what? less lift
doesn’t need to be because it still gets trashed in bvr against things like eurofighter or su30sm if they have competent pilots
not necessarily, for example: everything I could find about the su27 OE is that it is something between 0.60 and 0.70, in wt it is still only 0.54, somewhere gaijin is doing something wrong with the drag of the planes (all ofthem), making them have an overperformance in one part and an underperformance in another
just need to fix the mica range, as far as i know current mica should have longer range
will still get trashed by su30sm until it gets an equivalent amount of them
if you remove the su35 double r77 pylons we would have “only” 12 missiles in total (10 fox 3 or 8 if you carry 4 r73s) rafale has 8 micas, it is faster, more maneuverable, better radar, 360 rwr coverage, seems fair to me.
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Can be even lower of they force model a nonfunctional EW pod
yes, true, but the EW would need to be functional and not just an aesthetic thing
you dont need to carry 4 r73’s in bvr
also, considering r77’s still being better in bvr youre going to win as you can fire at kmax which will be significantly higher. not only that but “better radar” doesn’t matter if su30sm’s radar is good enough for the engagement at the weapons envelope range. the su30sm’s rwr is also good enough for notching.
speed for rafale will be less as if it continues to fly straight it will die to a missile fired at kmax, it will bleed its speed in a situation where you wont because you most likely are out of mica’s kmax even until that.
also not sure why you called it a su35.
the fat boat need somethin to defend if someone forces you to dogfight, i dont trust that much on the su30sm to hold its own with only 2 ir missiles
only if the enemy fly straight like a bot cause you know, the r77 still has a massive drag.
it matters.
when you turn to notch you are 100% blind to where the missile is, you keep trying to notch while turning with just your eyes, so yes the Rafale 360 RWR coverage is an advantage.
if the micas are fixed it will have better range on a faster platform than the su30 which will give an extra boost to how far the micas can go, the su30 also can’t fly straight otherwise it will eat the rafale missiles
the r77 double pylons are something that only the su35 has ever mounted untill now as far as i know. gaijin added this to the su27sm and su30sm based on the assumption that it could as well, since there are no technical differences to it.
and i would gladly trade that for the AL-41 engines and the lighter new radar on the su30sm2
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like i said this scenario is for bvr and youre taking a bvr loadout. you can avoid a dogfight at those altitudes with 2x r73 and rest being r77.
if you feel incompetent at your qualities and want to take more r73 because youre scared that youll somehow get into a dogfight then thats not my problem
exactly so they have to maneuver to bleed their speed when fired at kmax or they die, so the “speed advantange” isnt a thing here
like i said, if you can use your radar to guide your weapons at the weapons range and have a sufficient lock then you dont have a problem.
this does not prevent notching and additionally i’ve never had a problem with this in any aircraft. it doesnt take any skill to look at what direction the missile is coming from and to notch that.
not at kmax and you most likely can keep the rafale defensive due to having more missiles and being able to fire at kmax.
if there are no technical differences then there arent
everyone has opinions as to what they want for this and that. youre getting su30sm this way it is balanced and good.
Well, I was fair with my arguments and i made no judgments as to whether or not you have the competence to deal with the r77s or the su30, if you feel the need to be hostile in this way, I will stop responding to you because you are just arguing for the sake of being argumentative :D
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My first message in this is literally about liking the j11 (RVV-AE are R-77s).
R-77-1 having better range seems like a great change of pace.
Considering how bad R-77s are, I don’t think R-77-1s are going to do much better if at all. Its problem was it losing lock. Unless the Lock problem was fixed, range means nothing.
Having flown all capable Russian aircraft that carry R-77s, I can tell you first hand that they aren’t good, unless your sub 8-10 km.
Good thing top tier meta is 10KM beyond amramm spam.
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Oh yeah no I agree. The lack of range is the most annoying part. I vastly prefer pl12s, MICAs, and AMRAAMs myself. But that’s why I’m curious to see how the r771 will do, because for the most part they seem to benefit vastly from the additional range.