hmmmmm
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I don’t know what you mean by that, the r37m is not necessary at all and would break the game if added right now
my main point was that the su30sm is basically a 2002 plane fighting against 2019 rafales
and since su30sm2 is the one with AL-41 engines and new radar (also lighter radar compared to bars on the base su30sm), why not add this one?
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Well. Please don’t speak about reality, when you say such things. I respect you, so I am telling you that you need to come to grips with reality.
True or not, your opinions and judgements are often incredibly unpopular. You are consistently the most heckled person on the forum. Ask the mods.
So it’s worse at turning, a bit, compared to F-15C, but massively better acceleration. This makes it significantly better.
Irrelevant tests with methodology irrelevant to air rb. Water is wet.
As I said:
Also
You may recall I said earlier:
I would appreciate if you said things that showed you were aware of my earlier statements and positions.
We are getting off the topic here. This thread is not for discussion of F-15, Typhoon or others. Nor is it about Su-30SM being meta or not.
I think it would benefit the plane to have a decent engine because AL-31F is insufficient to overcome the horrendously crippled flight model.
Ideally I would prefer Gaijin pay attention to the flight manual provided to them by bug reporters, instead of ignoring it.
In lieu of that, AL-41F is fine.
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So the F-104S should be 11.7 with no weapons change just cause it’s faster?
Air RB cares about overall speed [not acceleration] and energy retention more than most other data points of flight performance.
The Su-30SM flight performance [not acceleration] is similar to the F-15s, which is why I brought up the F-15s to begin with.
It’s why I rarely mention ITR [which F-15E is the worst at], or low-speed capability which only really matters in custom battles.
It isn’t a BVR plane. I am specifically discussing BVR planes in BVR context. Please respect the context.
This is uncontrovertial. We agree here.
I brought it up because I’m comparing Su-30SM to the best BVR planes in the meta. They all have tons of thrust and generally have good flight models.
Su-30SM with AL-41F would fit this.
Su-30SM with AL-31FP does not.
We clearly can’t come to an agreement or really discuss this.
It is my evaluation that Su-27 variants are inferior and require deep flight model reworks, if not game engine improvements with regards to realism of flight models.
Hence I advocate the better engine, flight model rework & buffs and engine improvements.
Let us get back strictly on topic for if we believe the plane should receive the engine and why.
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Backtracking “equal to f-15e/c” I see.
Since the main decider in top tier is the initial and secondary BVR engagement, I find the most important flight performance factors to be speed and acceleration as well as energy retention in order to get to a notch and turn cold.
We all agree the f-15e has the most meta defining flight performance of all 14.0 aircraft, speed and acceleration, so I find it pretty intentionally misleading to say it has bad flight performance.
So why mention the following or even argue that the SU30sm is similar in nature?
But I don’t disagree that I believe the SU30sm will likely be fine as is, however I also don’t believe giving it improved engines that are currently being installed to its airframe IRL would make it OP.
My main point in this post is pointing out youre BSing us a little, and just not doing the best job of making your point: it’s not so different that it can’t compete.
@FlyingWarlord
Nice quoting me saying the same exact thing twice and calling saying the same thing “backtracking”.
Read up Webster.
The main decider of the 2nd BVR engagement is player skill in a competitive platform, of which Mirage 2000 [which is slower than Su-30SM] and Su-30SM are for their respective BRs.
F-15E never defined the meta, the F-15C did. First to altitude and to shoot is not THE meta, it’s part of the overall meta, but THE meta is survival. It’s not who launches first that wins, but who launches last.
Su-30SM cannot get improved engines, we have to wait for SM2 or a different SM variant whenever that’s standardized IRL in the future SM1 variant.
Either way the SM we’re getting isn’t that.
Wrong.
The meta is survival as you stated, but survival is dictated in two parts. Your skill, and the enemy’s knowledge of launch windows.
If the enemy launches properly your skill matters a whole lot more in your survival. Launch order matters more in the beginning due to the standard curve of player skill. As you previously stated we aren’t talking about custom battles, and it’s very hard to win a 1v9. I’ve done it, but I usually lose it.
Didn’t know “equal” and “similar” were synonymous with each other. Oh wait, they aren’t.
If you let the enemy launch properly.* Your post mentions skill, so your post should include the correct statement.
It is about who screws up first, and some aircraft [Such as Su-30SM, F-15E, and F-15C] can make those mistakes occur easier. In the F-15E’s case: No IRT, and the worst STR on live right now, it’s harder for the aircraft to play the 2nd part of the match than it is for Typhoon, Rafale, F-15C, or even Su-27SM. Pretty much everything with a better airframe.
The F-15C came out with the AIM-120 and invented the superclimb launch and start the 2nd portion of the match. It was the sole aircraft at the time that could do that.
F-15E came and that’s the only real tactic that aircraft can do above others, and Typhoon came able to do the same exact thing an update later.
Oh and F-15C can still do it alongside Su-27SM.
This all comes from the statement "AMRAAMs equalize airframes; old wisdom that militaries knew 30+ years ago and still know.
Yes, in a perfect situation Typhoon, Rafale, and F-18 are THE best platforms at 14.0; AMRAAMs ruin those positions for them.
Yes, it’s probable that the Su-30SM will lose at the end of the match. It won’t lose against an F-15E when both players of of equal skill, but it’s probable cause that one AMRAAM shot from one of the aircraft can cause the other player to make a mistake.
Equal, equivalent, similar are synonyms in that context.
Identical, copy-paste, etc would be the terms I would’ve used otherwise.
Oh, and you want to know what the primary purpose is of the PW-229s? To make the F-15E have a higher cruise speed when bomb-equipped.
→ Gets denied on the Bug report site for poor sources (that literally all talk about Su-30SM2)
→ Moves it to the forums with the exact same thing (The same sources)
What have we come to…
(The wise wonders of the misinformation that spreads from posts like these goes crazy)
Like I get it, the flight pref of 30SM leaves something to be desired but like… just sit down and use the hand you’re dealt my god…
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Hang on, I posted here before I made the bug report.
And I did not know that the sources talked about the SM2. You mentioned that they were all talking about the SM2 before they were reclassified the SM2. Can you clarify which information/source states they were reclassified? I am really curious as finding sources were difficult.
Also is it possible they are talking about the refitting of the old SM not the newly produced SM2s?
One of the main upgrade points of Su-30SM2, is the AL-41F1S.
Most of you’re sources on your bug report
(Community Bug Reporting System)
Usually mention something along the lines of:
New engines, New equipment (Ie. Radar and other systems along those lines)
Aka, Su-30SM2’s AL-41F1S, Irbis (or whatever radar SM2 actually uses), New HUD (Same one as Su-35S), new RWR placement, etc
And they are refitting old SM (I think? Don’t remember tbh) and new SM2 airframes, it’s just that there’s no stop gap between SM and SM2 (which is what people sometimes seem to think is real, ie Su-30SM w/ AL-41F1S)
You should do a poll, like the community did for the F-15E engines
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The difference is the F-15E is flying with those engines and have been for years.
The Su-30SM’s engine upgrade program is so far conjecture.
One piece of evidence was SM2 getting the engines.
Was it upgraded or did it come out initially with different engines?
SM2 was originally produced with the AL-41s.
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No, the F-15E, was it upgraded or did it come out with different engines initially?
F-15E was upgraded sometime over a decade ago. All existing F-15Es in service use the engines because it gives the aircraft a higher subsonic cruise speed when running strike missions over the “old” engines.
Correct, so it was upgraded, and in game was also upgraded, i dont see why the Su-30SM cant get its upgraded engines. We just want the engines, and it can be done , because the f-15e got its engines without its radar
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Right now I’ve seen no evidence of Su-30SM with upgraded engines, let alone the entire fleet.
Also the F-15E does have its radar.
AESA was only recently added to the Es if at all.
Sep 9, 2024 is the news article for refit, so I’m doubting the claims that SM “1” is currently upgraded.
I do get that people are upset that the Su-30SM accelerates the slowest of the 14.0s; I just don’t understand why the complaints are happening when Mirage players don’t complain about the Mirage 2000 being the slowest accelerating 13.7.