Mig-29SMT currently being under-BR’d.
Su-30SM coming out as an excellent 14.0.
The fact your post implies the F-15E is superior to the F-15E in flight performance is funny, cause there’s already been testing proving that F-15E/C and Su-30SM are all rather equal to each other. C has the best out of the 3, but it’s marginal.
Su-30SM/F-15 are not superior in flight performance to themselves, and they are equal to each other from the hands-on testing done.
“Japan is stuck with their F-15E equivalent aircraft.” Yeah, and it’s OP and meta because it’s 13.7 instead of with its equals.
Su-30SM will not suffer.
F-15E has the “worst” flight performance on live server because of its increased mass over F-15C, and it’s still great.
Su-30SM will be the same.
This is only true if everything proximal was severely decompressed. Otherwise this is extremely false.
Your testing methodology is extremely distorted and doesn’t produce relevant data.
Experienced and competent players will unanimously agree from their experience and from reliable tools like Statshark, that F-15E has huge performance advantages over F-15C.
This has been proven to you time and time again, yet you ignore it and continue to insist on counterfactual falsehoods.
There can be no fruitful discussion until you acknowledge this reality.
Mig-29SMT is mediocre at best with one of the worst FMs in its BR range, and its rather good radar doesnt save the R-77 from being the 2nd or even worst fox3 ingame
So a flight model equal to F-15E/C is “one of the worst”… good to know.
@Tristacomand
Prove that NATO and Statshark are distorted in their testing.
F-15E has a worst sustained turn rate, and worse instantaneous turn rate, to F-15C. F-15E is F-104S and F-15C is F-4E.
The fact your post calls facts “falsehoods” is proof enough.
I hope one day you acknowledge reality like the rest of us.
Keep claiming that Statshark, NATO, and countless other experts are wrong…
Oh, BTW Statshark can’t do a perfect comparison with F-15E & F-15C cause you can’t plug in extra drag from weapons and fuel tanks.
And despite those flaws F-15C pulls ahead in STR clean with fuel equalized.
I did not mention them? I spoke of good and experienced players.
This is bold to remark, considering you are famous for being disagreed with. Possibly the most contentious person on the forum. Really bizarre to appeal to being agreed with.
@Tristacomand
So me constantly agreeing with and repeating the facts hundreds of experts say means we disagree?
People have rarely disagreed with my takes, cause I’ve only ever spoken when I have the facts in line. I’ve mistyped which caused countless misunderstandings though.
It also helps that almost all of my takes are popular; Such as targeted decompression, balance, etc.
I am one of the good players, not according to me but according to the game and third party systems.
I use the standard NATO testing for my testing of ALL aircraft, AS WELL AS player preferred fuel loads taken into account for useful information.
Oh, look when both have 10 minutes of fuel loaded the F-15C/JM still pulls ahead of F-15E in flight performance.
Acceleration isn’t everything, otherwise F-104S would be a higher BR than F-4E.
And yes, I know energy retention isn’t everything.
The balance of everything is acceleration, STR/energy retention, radar, weapons, countermeasures, and maybe one more thing I’m forgetting.
If STR is better than acceleration, that’s an equalizer.
If weapons are better than radar, that’s an equalizer.
This Reddit graph mean nothing, real gameplay says otherwise, F15E has an artificial FM in game, it’s possible to catch it in a straight flight.
No one here’s fall from you fallacies anymore, Gaijin already knew that you and some “very vocal” users on this Forum are raiding this forum every god damn update to nerf any soviet plane that gaijin releases.
Like i’ve said to a fella of yours few days ago, you are just a regular user like me and everyone else.
After flying the Su-30 on dev after its FM changes, I do not think that the upgraded engines are needed anymore
The aircraft can compete just fine in BVR and despite still struggling in dogfights it can hold its own
@MagicUnicorn
So because the F-15E’s flight model is worse that makes it artificial?
Also my bug reports that would buff Soviet aircraft means we’re wanting to nerf them? lol
Keep claiming everyone’s out to get you…
@Tristacomand he claims to know us. That true or he talking from fiction?
From the testing I’ve done, Su-30SM is going to be a competitive if not outright meta 14.0.
No, it will not go mach 2.4. No it will not accelerate faster than an F-15 or Rafale.
It will however still get to its high top speed at low altitude, and equip 8+ AMRAHMs using among the best radars on a jet.
if you guys really think about it, the su30sm is 100% based on the su30mki (the indian one) with only avionics modifications (not relevant for war thunder), so basically we have a 2002 plane fighting against 2019 rafales :D
imo we should have the su30sm2 for this update, not the base su30sm
(no, i don’t want r37m in wt rn)
I don’t know what you mean by that, the r37m is not necessary at all and would break the game if added right now
my main point was that the su30sm is basically a 2002 plane fighting against 2019 rafales
and since su30sm2 is the one with AL-41 engines and new radar (also lighter radar compared to bars on the base su30sm), why not add this one?
So the F-104S should be 11.7 with no weapons change just cause it’s faster?
Air RB cares about overall speed [not acceleration] and energy retention more than most other data points of flight performance.
The Su-30SM flight performance [not acceleration] is similar to the F-15s, which is why I brought up the F-15s to begin with.
It’s why I rarely mention ITR [which F-15E is the worst at], or low-speed capability which only really matters in custom battles.
It isn’t a BVR plane. I am specifically discussing BVR planes in BVR context. Please respect the context.
This is uncontrovertial. We agree here.
I brought it up because I’m comparing Su-30SM to the best BVR planes in the meta. They all have tons of thrust and generally have good flight models.
Su-30SM with AL-41F would fit this.
Su-30SM with AL-31FP does not.
We clearly can’t come to an agreement or really discuss this.
It is my evaluation that Su-27 variants are inferior and require deep flight model reworks, if not game engine improvements with regards to realism of flight models.
Hence I advocate the better engine, flight model rework & buffs and engine improvements.
Let us get back strictly on topic for if we believe the plane should receive the engine and why.
Since the main decider in top tier is the initial and secondary BVR engagement, I find the most important flight performance factors to be speed and acceleration as well as energy retention in order to get to a notch and turn cold.
We all agree the f-15e has the most meta defining flight performance of all 14.0 aircraft, speed and acceleration, so I find it pretty intentionally misleading to say it has bad flight performance.
So why mention the following or even argue that the SU30sm is similar in nature?
But I don’t disagree that I believe the SU30sm will likely be fine as is, however I also don’t believe giving it improved engines that are currently being installed to its airframe IRL would make it OP.
My main point in this post is pointing out youre BSing us a little, and just not doing the best job of making your point: it’s not so different that it can’t compete.
@FlyingWarlord
Nice quoting me saying the same exact thing twice and calling saying the same thing “backtracking”.
Read up Webster.
The main decider of the 2nd BVR engagement is player skill in a competitive platform, of which Mirage 2000 [which is slower than Su-30SM] and Su-30SM are for their respective BRs.
F-15E never defined the meta, the F-15C did. First to altitude and to shoot is not THE meta, it’s part of the overall meta, but THE meta is survival. It’s not who launches first that wins, but who launches last.
Su-30SM cannot get improved engines, we have to wait for SM2 or a different SM variant whenever that’s standardized IRL in the future SM1 variant.
Either way the SM we’re getting isn’t that.
The meta is survival as you stated, but survival is dictated in two parts. Your skill, and the enemy’s knowledge of launch windows.
If the enemy launches properly your skill matters a whole lot more in your survival. Launch order matters more in the beginning due to the standard curve of player skill. As you previously stated we aren’t talking about custom battles, and it’s very hard to win a 1v9. I’ve done it, but I usually lose it.
Didn’t know “equal” and “similar” were synonymous with each other. Oh wait, they aren’t.
If you let the enemy launch properly.* Your post mentions skill, so your post should include the correct statement.
It is about who screws up first, and some aircraft [Such as Su-30SM, F-15E, and F-15C] can make those mistakes occur easier. In the F-15E’s case: No IRT, and the worst STR on live right now, it’s harder for the aircraft to play the 2nd part of the match than it is for Typhoon, Rafale, F-15C, or even Su-27SM. Pretty much everything with a better airframe.
The F-15C came out with the AIM-120 and invented the superclimb launch and start the 2nd portion of the match. It was the sole aircraft at the time that could do that.
F-15E came and that’s the only real tactic that aircraft can do above others, and Typhoon came able to do the same exact thing an update later.
Oh and F-15C can still do it alongside Su-27SM.
This all comes from the statement "AMRAAMs equalize airframes; old wisdom that militaries knew 30+ years ago and still know.
Yes, in a perfect situation Typhoon, Rafale, and F-18 are THE best platforms at 14.0; AMRAAMs ruin those positions for them.
Yes, it’s probable that the Su-30SM will lose at the end of the match. It won’t lose against an F-15E when both players of of equal skill, but it’s probable cause that one AMRAAM shot from one of the aircraft can cause the other player to make a mistake.
Equal, equivalent, similar are synonyms in that context.
Identical, copy-paste, etc would be the terms I would’ve used otherwise.
Oh, and you want to know what the primary purpose is of the PW-229s? To make the F-15E have a higher cruise speed when bomb-equipped.
