Still Seeing Extreme Underperformance From High Caliber HE Shells in Air Combat. Is this RealShatter?

I have noticed over the past several months an appreciable change in the performance of air target HE loads in war thunder. I typically use average sized cannons (20mm), and with the higher volume of shells, it’s easier to overlook the damage output per shell, but I have recently noticed these effects in planes with high caliber guns.

I want to take the Me-262 A-2/U4 as an example. This aircraft has a 50mm main gun, and with HE loads, each shell contains an explosive mass of nearly half a kilogram of TNT. I can’t say I have used this aircraft a ton, but I did use it some in the past, and most shots that land (regardless of the aircraft type) were instant kills. This is to be expected, the shock of such a single shell of this explosive mass would be capable of tearing tail sections off of large bombers without issue.

Since this air cannon HE rework debacle I recently did some testing with it. I’ve found that it now typically takes an average of 4-6 hits to land a kill on a bomber, and more often than not, it won’t kill a fighter in once shot.

Here’s an example I selected from a hit I scored on a FW-190 F8


Here’s the moment of impact on the plane:

Damage Aftermath

Top Down:

Side Image Showing side of engine and fuselage

From Below

As you can see, it’s almost like the shell put a giant 3 foot diameter hole in the base of the wing right next to the fuselage and did absolutely no shrapnel or shock damage. Notice that there is almost no damage to critical components on the fuselage. In any real life scenario I am certain that the explosion associated with the impact of a 50mm HE shell at the location seen above would have been more than capable of critically damaging the fuselage and rear components of the engine, and even probabaly killed the pilot. This is quite literally a bomb going off feet from the pilot’s legs. The plane would have likely been a fireball instantly after this impact if the wing didn’t shear off, but in Gainjin’s current model, little to no damage was done to the FW 190.

Please test this out for yourself. Go into the mission editor and try shooting down bombers (B-17’s, Halifax, Lancaster, B-24, etc.) with either this Me 262 or a Yak 9K and see how inneficient and unrealistic these very high caliber shells have become. A hit from a 50mm HE should be ripping tails off of planes, not damaging a single elevator. It often times can take as many as 8 or 9 50mm HE shells to land before you can get a kill on a B-17E, with multiple shells slamming into and exploding in the tail section.

I admit that I am not the most technically versed in damage effects from explosive shells on aircraft, but I don’t feel as though I need to be to say that this is an unrealistic representation of what a 50mm HE shell would do, but this is simply poor modeling on Gaijins part and it seems these large shells are almost incapable of damaging more than one component at a time.

Does anyone have any further input? I’d like to see more examples of this, or if you disagree, and think this is a fair representation of a high caliber HE shell impact, I’d like to hear your explanation.

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I believe an impact of this magnitude should be doing significant damge to the area highlighted, where in this example (see side image) the plane is virtually untouched.


Imho it make sense if you would join this thread:

It deals with various changes regarding damage output of cannons and you might find some answers to your question there…


Why is this even a feature then? Do they just want people to quit playing.

Real Shatter when working properly is actually quite good. canons do damage meaningful. But last major update they broke something and it returned to its broken state we had for a while. No idea what they broke or why its taking so long to fix.

Unfortunately there’s the poorly implementation & bugs that arrived with it, the mechanic itself isn’t the problem.
They fixed it during “La Royale”, all guns were working wonderfully but somehow when King’s of Battle devserver arrived, the issue was there again. *I have no proof of what am about to say:
But I do believe that they started developing Kings of Battle on a dev version that the fragmentation bug wasn’t fixed yet, so it ended up reverting the whole fix.

I will make a bugreport on the guns again. (Currently collecting clips of the guns failing to do proper damage).
I’d recommend moving to the bigger thread if you have more questions, footage or if u wanna discuss more about it.

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No, this is not RealShatter.
Bugs are not RealShatter.

A bugged RealShatter = RealShitter.

real Shatter is good when its working, but there are currently bugs relating to real shatter that are probably causing the issues OP described

Probably, goes so insane i need 3 37mm soviet HE shells to hit a plane to kill it all while 20mm shreds.

It is a known issue.
At first and for the long time, HE shells of all canons underperformed and ppl were using AP shells
Then, few months back, they fixed the issue and all canons in WT were absolute deadly
Now, for some reason, they messed it up all again.

You people were no aware of this?

Known issue.

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What update they haven’t broken realshitter?

Real Shatter as a system does not work well enough to justify use

A bug caused by a system is caused by said system.
You can not simply take the cause away from the issue…
I see thats why you “never encountered” any issue with volumetric. Because in your mind issues caused by it are not its fault.

So a pipe broken in your house causing water damage is also not seen by you as “waterdamaged caused by a broken pipe” but just as “water damage”

it all makes much more sense now

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RealShatter is the fragmentation simulation.
& the simulation isn’t bugged so it’s not a bug with RealShatter, but a bug that still impacts damage to aircraft.

And I’ve not had issues with volumetric because not penning 3 meters of roof armor isn’t an issue with volumetric, that’s realism & me wiffing my shot.

And just cause YOU don’t see a water pipe being broken as a problem with the water pipe doesn’t mean everyone does.

HE explosion and fragmentation are bugged as far as we know. Both are part of real shatter.
In fact everything past the impact is RealShatter related. So 100% of the damage guns on aircraft do is RealShatter related. So anything to do with damage of those guns is RealShatter related.,

That is not even an issue I ever had. But we digress. You would refuse even video proov at this point…again.

No you don`t see it as a problem. At least if how you see relation in WT is how you see real issues

Me: “There’s a bug with aircraft damage, it’s unconnected to RealShatter.”
You: “There has been no RealShatter changes in 2 months.”
We’re literally in agreement.
Please stop arguing when you agree with the person that there’s an issue.

It can’t be part of RealShatter if the RealShatter code hasn’t changed.

There is a burst pipe, water is coming in while it’s raining.
It’s not the rain [RealShatter].

Which is already wrong as I said.
You are disconnecting cause and effect. For no reason

Let me put it in the simplest terms possible

Start: → Impact of the bullet on a target
End: → Dissipating of the last fragment

Everything in between is part of RealShatter. RealShatter calculates the HE damage, the Number and dispersion of Fragments and the damage of each individual fragment.
Therefore anything relating to damage of, RealShatter using, aircraft cannons is related to RealShatter.

It can.
Thats the issue.
Because RealShatter has to interact with way more systems than the old system ever did.
Pre RealShatter damage was RNG. A Shell could deal x-y damage. these numbers where set in stone. HE(I,F and so on) had x to y number of fragments, these where set in stone. The interaction was simple. Bullet hit->calculation of where it hit-> rolling of damage → roll for fragmentation → Calc where the fragments hit → roll for damage of fragments → apply damage to the impacted models
Now all of that is taken over by RealShater. And changing the damage models of planes to better accompany RealShatter is still related to RealShatter. (No this is almost certainly not the reason for the bug).
If you can no longer change the value of a ground ammo belt without it impactiung RealShatter then RealShatter is involved even if not a single variable (of RealShatter) has been changed (This is almost certainly the reason for the bug, as Gaijin changed lost of ground MG and cannon belts)

RealShatter is the underlying connection between all. A connection which did not exist without RealShatter.
Thats what I am talking about. Connecting to many values with a single system causes such issues. And the Biggest connecting system in air right now is RealShatter.

True nothing about it changed, but if changing an unrelated number causes these issues it is because of a bugged interaction between RealShatter and sth else. This interaction is only possible because RealSahtter combined and interacts with so many different systems. Hence it is a RealShatter issue, as before RealShatter existed this interaction would not be possible. So the Systems connected with RealShatter worked fine before RealShatter was introduced. Now they need to be adjusted again because of RealShatter.

Hence RealShatter is the reason. A Connection exists between RealShatter and sth else which should not exist. This needs fixing. It is a problem directly cuased by RealShatters implementation. And it can only be fixed by either:
Reverting every change of the last major Patch and see if it now works again
Removing connections to and from RealShatter to other systems and see if any of them fix the issue.

So only working on RealShatter can fix the issue.

There could be bugs elsewhere that’s impacting RealShatter’s performance.
It’s still not RealShatter causing the issue which you yourself already admitted in another thread hasn’t had its code changed.

You’re not disagreeing with me on anything, you’re just blindly saying “You’re wrong.” then stating something we agree with, or otherwise missing the point & being slightly inconsistent with your previous posts.

Again. if sth older impatc realshatetr it is still caused by realshatter not being properly linked to other systems.
RealShatetr needs to be worked on to fix the issue. The only other way is to revert the changes done elsewhere.

Tahts the issue.
RealShatter is the System whcih needs to be worked on to fix the issue. Nothing else.

Thats why I say you are wrong. Because I see the part that needs work as the issue. Because not seeing it that way only leaves you with reverting every change you made if it causes issues.