I made the important part of my statement more noticeable for you. Aircraft skin IR sig will appear differently on aircraft giving a multitude of factors. And yes it would obviously lock onto aircraft skin that is what makes it all aspect.
Oh yeah, some missiles can do that, like the 9M37M.
1 Like
If we agree on that simple statement, why are we even having this discussion
Yod have to place your SURFACE TO AIR missile in quite an interesting place for an aircraft to be below you
Just because the engine is hidden by the entire airframe in front aspect doesn’t make it any less hot
All of this to say : a manpads can lock a F-117 just fine, no matter how you want to look at the issue
Front aspect you are detecting heat from air friction not the engines. I don’t know how to make this any simpler for you to understand.
cant even see the engines as they are hidden to be fair
1 Like
That logic is apparently beyond comprehension.
1 Like
yes, my statement above doesn’t contradict that
At the end of the day, it doesn’t even matter, an all aspect missile will lock fine, engine or not.
TLDR, a manpads can lock fine, and F-117’s IR signature shouldn’t be reduced in game
1 Like
its reduced heat signature should be modeled as it has a redecuced heat signature
Then you acknowledge how useless this statement was to bring me back here?
by increasing the IR signature of helicopters and other jets which is overperforming, yes i agree
It already has a 0.5 IR multiplier, the only way to model it better than a guess is to run simulations. While I highly doubt a F117 flies cooler and/or has less contrast compared to the skies than those Hilux & Land Cruisers in the desert, everything here in the thread is just wishful thinking unless reliable sources are brought up.
Ditto for RCS, manufacturer’s propaganda numbers for stealth aircrafts aren’t reliable and, as far as we can compare to simulations and IRL events (downed F117, serbian reports), cherry picked numbers.
We know Gaijin’s RCS implementation is very lacking, as it only has front, side and rear multipliers in the files, instead of a proper RCS sphere with different values all around (plus different values for different bands), also, the fact that those numbers are multipliers, means they’re multiplying a base number, afaik one we don’t know.
Finally, IF the base number is the standard sphere (1m^2), then the RCS on F117 is overperforming in game, as both the side and front multipliers make for a lower value than the claimed (in a vaccuum) 0.003m^2.
1 Like
Isn’t Gaijins IR signature based on engine thrust which is probably the main issue with locking helicopters?
it is indeed
but even that doesn’t make sense sometimes. Lynx heli can only be locked at 1.5-2km while having 2 engines producing around 1000 horsepower each, while gazelle can be locked around 2-2.5km while it has a single engine producing around 800 horsepower.
I’ve personnally given up on trying to understand how gaijin modelled those signatures.
For aircrafts it seems to indeed depend on thrust. Assuming that is true, F117 would basically have the IR signature of an aircraft producing around 2.5 Tons of thrust, so early cold war jet territory (in game, in reality it should most likely be lower)
2 Likes
Just reporting from own experience, Pantsir easily detects and kills F-117 flying at 6km alt above full cloud scenario (no visual sight from Pantsir) at distance about 13km ± 2km. I took off from the airport and sideclimbed.
I hoped for it to be less, I will stick to 10.0-10.3 BR, where it perform quite well.
One of the F-117’s greatest achievements was the elimination of Iraq’s air defenses in the first hours of the war.
It was at night, it was the communication centers and radar stations of the SAM system…
- F-117 attacked only at night, during the day it was assessed as very dangerous
- the aircraft that provided them with anti-radioelectronic warfare during each action were F-111
- they mostly flew high, I read somewhere that the last few minutes before dropping the bombs, they were at an altitude of 1500 meters
- the Iraqi defense had the SA-2, SA-3, SA-6, SA-8 and Roland systems
- then about 8000 anti-aircraft guns that worked more or less independently of each other
- the best radars that Iraq had were the older Soviet P-12 and P-18 and only a few pieces
- F-117 is designed to attack resistant, heavily fortified, immobile targets
Although it was undoubtedly a great success for the USAF, the Iraqi air defense was more amazed by the number of weapons than by the quality of these systems and its operators…
But what do we have in the game…
- a light attack aircraft, which is marked with a marker and still flies in daylight
- Pantsir? = a much more modern system, which the F-117 is short of…
- and they want players to attack moving targets…
Both ground and air battles would have to take place at night, without any auxiliary markers and other signs that make it easier for players to see the battlefield…
Was it a Serbian Ozelot?
It’s a 10.0 aircraft in GRB, people bringing it to 12.0 matches are hampering themselves for no reason. You don’t have to play it against the Pantsir in the first place, it’s a much more modern AA system and that’s why it sits at 12.0, not 10.0.
4 Likes
Most people knew the F-117 would have no relevance in-game. It was a plane specialized for tasks that don’t relate well to the game, at least for now.
Nonetheless, it’s still cool to see it here.
Its ir signature was reduce irl, why not ingame? It’s currently one of Warthunder’s hottest planes as the only thing that determines engine heat in WT is how powerful it is.
it is not one of the hottest planes in game, far from it, it’s already one of the coldest, but i agree that it suffers compared to other planes.
The F117 reduced IR signature should be modelled, by simply nerfing the IR signature on early cold war jets (mig 15s, Sabres, Mysteres, A4E, and many others) which have absolutely no business being that cold to begin with. The same goes for Helicopters, with some being almost as cold as a recon drone.
F117 can be left as is, and it then will be one of the coldest plane in game, if not the coldest