The much better muzzle velocity means almost nothing, because compared to the M348 has 213g less TNT filler, which makes the round so much weaker. I can literally use the M348 round as a main round, because its post-pen is that good, but the M341 is only good against heavies and even then its damage is a literal gamble.
It does when you are now able to easily snipe ammo racks such as on the T34s from practically any range. ~400m/s increase in muzzle velocity is a lot to be honest with you.
I haven’t noticed a difference to be honest.
I’ve also done some testing and it seems like they have near identical spalling:
Maybe it leans slightly more towards one way or the other, but that difference is insignificant compared to the ~43% increase in muzzle velocity.
Huh, these tanks are just not to be used for W gameplay, otherwise are completely fine. I’d rather say they should just remove HEAT-FS and maybe lower the BR to 6.0, but in any other case it is a mid 6.3 tank
1 Like
Out of honest curiosity - assume Snail restoratively buffed HEATFS postpen damage, then where would all the ST-A series need to go BR-wise? I’ve played the ST-A1 a fair bit and its not bad honestly. Sure its made of glass but so is everything for Japan and Italy, so I’m more or less used to that.
Nowhere unless buff is substantial enough to compare it to some APHE damage-wise.
I’d like to point out that I am a fan of an idea that anything that has HEAT-FS around 6.x should move to 6.7-7.3. Sure, there are doubts about armor pen when it comes to late-WW2/early Cold War heavies, but given at 7.0 you start to face Leo1s and T-54s, which can even be pen’ed by APHE in the front (afaik even 1951 T-54).
Even without buff I’d say anything with HEAT-FS as secondary/primary round should be at least 6.7, because having played all these JP tanks, you really cook anything with armor at 6.3 and below at any range (HEAT has no pen-reduction tax over ranges)
You should give it a go in-game. I initially used the ST-A3 with HEAT-FS as a main shell, but was dissappointed by how many times my shot just barely did anything or how many times I had to do more follow-up shots. You feel the difference more when you start shooting at angles and when it doesn’t only just spall to crew members, but rather components too, it’ll go through much less.
St A3 and tupe 61 are worst man XD
The M51, at 6.3, is already overtiered. Should go back down to 6.0
You mean like the open-topped, slow with weak armor M36B?
You can’t assign BR placement solely on gun pen.
True. But Heat sucks on any map with lots of cover - forests, towns with trees, posts, fernces.
There are quite a few maps that make HEAT almost useless.
I meant 6.x BR, like 6.0-6.7, which can be 6.7-7.3 if there was a will (and more than a one balancing decision).
M36B is a different topic.
True, however map design is not to be considered when it comes to balancing tanks. Say, starting from like 9.0, things with APFSDS almost always start with HEAT-FS, and it’s not like stuff gets balanced around HEAT-FS but many other conditions.
I mentioned 6.0 tanks because most of them either can be viable at +0.3-0.7 with HEAT-FS or be same BR-0.7 BR lower without it, because I don’t balance things around the gun only (even though some tanks ARE about gun and not everything else)
While the forward mobility is subpar, the reverse gear and surprisingly decent survivability combined with the good gun mean that it can comfortably sit at 6.3… Though I wouldn’t mind if the ST-A1 went down to 5.7 and lost the HEAT-FS shell
Based on my experience, all ST-As are not new player friendly. I used to die a lot with it becuase I didn’t know how to play them. Now that i do, it’s better used as a sniper/ambush and gotten some high kill streaks/nukes. You park somewhere and let them come to you rather than brawling and going 1st into a fight. It’s a tank that requires skills and map knowledge to do well in. Not a braindead one like the Ho-Ri where it can tank hits and still kill. Can’t really play chicken with it either, so backing away and relocating is better choice. As much as i want this at 6.0 as a Japan Main, 6.3 is manageable.
Whoops, it does use M438. I messed that one up. Ill fix that
Its a more mobile Pershing, with somewhat decent armor, that can snipe with ease due to its optics.
I don’t think you can really argue thats bad.
Yeah the ST-A1/2 have gun optics good enough to spot a bug taking a dump on the hole left by your round a kilometer away from what I remember, like the Jagdtiger had for years (and I forget if it still does).
You can because the Pershing also sucks
Why?
It has HEATFS, which you were discussing.
At minimum, HEAT rounds should deal 45-degree lethal spall cones when they penetrate. At maximum, prior to the introduction of heavily-compartmentalized tanks with spall liners, NBC stuff, and ERA HEAT should just straight up overpressure kill from the jet itself. Modern rounds use non-copper liners to enhance the overpressure effect of the jet even further (aluminum, zirconium, magnesium, etc.) because those are pyrophoric.
So take that for what you will. At minimum HEAT would become about as good as solid AP is from corresponding-sized guns of the 57-152mm sizes. At maximum it would be a bigger nuke than APHE is.
Considering it’s ONLY ammo is heatfs it should be considered.
Don’t think there are many (any?) tanks that do not have AP or APHE or APCR.
M51 is an outlier.
And considering it’s the only vehicle you start with, you can’t keep it in garage when a jungle map loads…
Well, I have been (as I said here):
I have been using the Japanese and Italian M36 a lot:
I also have been using the Type 61 and ST-A3 a lot:
The Type 61’s / ST-A3’s HEATFS feel similar in terms of spalling as the M36s. The key difference is that the ST-A3 and Type 61 often have to penetrate harder targets, which reduces their HEATFS spalling (like the IS-4Ms, T32E1s, Somuas, etc…)
The tests I have done in the protection analysis supports my claim that their spalling really isn’t that different.
1 Like
It should actually, tanks that excel at long range rarely get to actually use that capability.
the optics are insanely overkill and get in the way more often than being useful
1 Like