This is like the only proper image of the ER i could find since the warhead position is closer to the fins to make some space for the additional propellent
Does anyone know how gaijin model drag? I don’t think gaijin will have access to any drag values, so what make them determine what missile have what drag?
I am trying to understand dual pulse and from what I’ve research dual pulse can greatly increase missile max range under the same delta V(or any other factor that affects max range of a missile). SPYDER advertise range is actually possible to achieve double the range by making the missile dual pulse and some other minor changes (slightly more propellant and slight reduce in drag).
The limited performance difference between the Derby ER and Derby SR appears to be largely caused by drag. If the drag coefficient were reduced, both missiles would achieve longer ranges. However, the Derby ER would benefit more significantly because its dual-pulse motor preserves energy later in the trajectory.
This video actually show the burn time of the booster. Kind of sad it didnt show when the second pulse booster end.
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Gaijin bends, breaks and molds thrust/air drag values to fit known data points. The more data points available (thrust produced/specific impulse, burn time, propellant weight, speed-over-time at what altitudes) the better. When Gaijin has “118kg missile achieves 50km range with air launch at unknown conditions”, sky is the limit how they can go about it.
Primary intention behind dual pulse is/was improving hit probability at range, so missile has more speed in terminal phase → can actually maneuver.
Besides usual “videos can’t be used for bug reports”, but second pulse should be at least 4s in length? Whats thrust profile is also unknown. Assuming propellant numbers are correct (weight, impulse), extending second pulse to 4 would result in halved thrust. Which should be marginal improvement, due to lower speed and thus lower air drag?
Unless you convince Gaijin Derpy ER has significantly reduced air drag or significantly more propellant inside, it will be AMRAAM C5/D all over again.
Do they have either of them for other missiles?
Thats secondary effect of dual pulse, main effect is actually more range.
I am thinking is it possible to convince gaijin derby er has less drag consider they have different missile model (er does not have the canard).
I know someone else must have shown this image before. I want to confirm does that confirm derby range condition? (subsonic, medium alt interceptor and target)
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/5gVFiF88QbZC
???Shouldn’t training missile have the same external model as combat ones?
IIRC Rafael didn’t published launch/target conditions for regular Derby nor other missiles, only Derby ER have these stated, if still somewhat vague. Ground launched Derby ER, via Spyder range chart doesn’t specify what target is doing either - subsonic, medium alt interception? Super/hipersonic ballistic missile interception?
Certainly there’s more info on AMRAAMs, as I was catching up on 120Drama. R-77s supposedly are decently modeled except their supersonic air drag, as its more of a technical limitation on Gaijin part and they CBA reworking air drag modelling for one missile.
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Often training missiles are painted different colours to show they’re not combat capable, for example, blue being inert
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I just got the thing and both missles are just trash. You can’t even intercept a LMUR coming at you…
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At this point I think gaijin should either buff derby er or reduce spyder br. Like if gaijin thinks spyder does not have 40km range or even 20km. Like they are treating spyder have 20-30km range.
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imo they should just add Stunner 🤪
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Watch them look at stunner size similar to a Aim120 and give it 20km range.
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I haven’t played multi vehicle spaa but does every launcher get a separate ammo box like doubling 16 ammo to 32 if so Spyder and the Chinese top tier spaa are in a disadvantage again with worse missiles too
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Yes each launcher gets a separate ammo box.
IRIST-SLM: 8x2+8x2= 32
CLAWS: 6x2+6x2 = 24
Well that’s another disadvantage for Spyder
Derpy, both regular (air too) and ER got an update. Reworked motors by the looks of it, reduced air drag
54kg of propellant on ER compared to previous 47kg, also bit higher specific impulse (244 vs 240).
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lofts even more
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Derby-ER:
Loft Elevation: 27.5 → 35.0
Prop Navigation Multiplier: 4.0 → 6.0
TimetoGain removed so now it does not have restrictions in shorter range maneuverability
OrientationAutopilot…
Timeout: 0.15 → 0.10
Controltime: 4.0 → 2.0
ElevationAdd: 20.0 → 40.0
CxK: 1.9 → 1.55, significantly reduced drag
timelife: 90.0 → 120.0 seconds, increased battery time
endspeed: 1,000 m/s → 1,025m/s. Increased max speed
explosivemass: 5.0 → 1.85kg, reduced explosive mass
First motor pulse…
time: 4.0 → 4.5
force: 18880 → 19200
mass lost: 32kg → 36kg
Second motor pulse…
time: 2.0 → 3.5
force: 17625 → 12350
masslost: 15.0 → 18.0
Second pulse rules…
starttimemin: 4.0 → 6.0
timetohitmin: 5.0 → 25.0
velocitymin: 350 → 240
targetclosureratemin: 175 (New line)
So what we can see here for the Derby ER is a lot of positive changes with the exception of reduced explosive mass that would be a nerf. However Derby ER should climb more not only in the initial stage but throughout the flight process.
It should also pull more initially now and and lead more towards targets. Leading more towards target could be considered by some to be a nerf but it also got significantly reduced drag to help with that considerably. After drag reduction and thrust increase, battery time was increased as well just enough to meet range specifications laid out in the SPYDER brochure.
Interestingly, it should no longer be out-accelerated by the regular Derby in the initial stages like it previously was. It also has more propellant than the Derby and thus the missile should have greater “thrust to weight” ratio considerably.
Burntime was increased in second pulse while a new line addition of targetclosureratemin was added and timetohitmin was considerably increased from 5 seconds away from target to 25 seconds away from target, so theoretically the Derby-ER should activate its second pulse at the apex of its loft providing significantly increased endgame speed and range.
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Anyone tested derby ER range?
Ive tested new derby and its really way better then a regular one. Nothing crazy tho.
Basically we should expect Spyder to hit targets at 10, maybe even 15 kms now. Thats a 12.7 material for sure.
UPD: on a 2nd video its actually managed to hit target at about 30 kms but it was moving at a speed of climbing A-10…
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